Wsop 2009 Variant Challenge

[Tom Hedonist]

Originally Posted by Myrie16

2) 2 thirds have been in NL Omaha Hi-Lo

NL Omaha Hi/Lo seems like madness Isn't that meant to be a limit game? What are your results like in this game alone? I'd imagine it'd be fairly hard to achieve consistent results?

[Myrie16]

Originally Posted by Tom Hedonist

NL Omaha Hi/Lo seems like madness Isn't that meant to be a limit game? What are your results like in this game alone? I'd imagine it'd be fairly hard to achieve consistent results?

Madness isn't the word ..... most of my bankroll went on these games.

I figured myself to be an ok player having played PL and Limit Omaha8 with some small successes (more so in PL) but the game was definitely a bit more like a bingo freeroll at times - although those who have seen me play NL Hold Em might say I should be right at home !!

Don't get me wrong, I learnt 2 other important lessons from these games.
1) I get frustrated and impatient far too easily when I feel like I'm surrounded by idiots - there were some better players, even at such low stakes, happy to take advantage of this.
2) Sometimes you can make too many moves. If they don't (or can't) see it coming they won't lay down and move aside Simply playing your hand isn't the worst thing you can do ..... sometimes anyway

When I first started playing poker, limit games were not much fun for me - I got bored not being able to lump all my chips in when I felt like it ! But in the 2 weeks I have to say my performances (not just results) felt so much more controlled and my play stronger in the limit games.

My last buy in went very easily - so a disastrous 2 weeks all in all. Got off to a bright start but lost my focus in a matter of days.
Failed in my first attempt

So adjustments as I continue (taking on board some of the advice posted).

1) Re-deposited $50 on Stars - new balance $50.54
2) Playing $3 + 0.40 and $6 + 50, single table sit and go
3) Playing up to $3 + 0.30 MTT
4) Only 1 game type at a time - HORSE until further notice

Next update on sunday

[Myrie16]

Time on the PC has been short due to "quality time" with the missus and a long Finnish weekend ..... if you've never experienced "Juhannus" it's much like a boozy night out, except in a quiet, scerenic environment with your mates, BBQ and fishing for 4 days solid and 24 hours daylight (near enough) .... a must if ever in Finland

For those following there will be a full update soon ... it's not all going well

But we live and learn (a lot of learning in the next 12 months I hope ).

[Myrie16]

So to be brief .... it feels like a tough old slog already

Final 2 weeks of June I played 69 SnGs and the breakdown looked like this.

$1,75	HORSE	Omaha Hi/Lo	Razz	Stud Hi/Lo	NL Hold Em
Played	2	3	1	2	1
1st	0	0	0	0	0
Total Cashes	2	1	1	1	0
Net Profit	$3,70	-$2,55	$5,45	$5,45	-$1,75
$3,40	HORSE	Omaha Hi/Lo	Razz	Stud Hi/Lo	NL Hold Em
Played	10	20	1		3
1st	4	2	0		0
Total Cashes	4	6	0		1
Net Profit	$14,00	$7,60	-$3,40		-$4,80
$5,50	HORSE	Omaha Hi/Lo	Razz	Stud Hi/Lo	NL Hold Em
Played		1
1st		0
Total Cashes		1
Net Profit		$21,50
$6,50	HORSE	Omaha Hi/Lo	Razz	Stud Hi/Lo	NL Hold Em
Played	6	15	1	1	1
1st	0	3	0	0	0
Total Cashes	0	7	0	0	0
Net Profit	-$39,00	$37,50	-$6,50	-$6,50	-$6,50

So, plenty of play for a total profit of



$2,70 !!

Since then I've had a short holiday and played very little so put this on hold while I decide where to go next ...... playing so much for so little reward is not very appealling

I play variants because I enjoy the different challenges .... boredom comes easily to me so I like to keep my brain ticking over There's also a bit that makes me think at these levels either I am better (or my opponents weaker) than in Hold Em´so I always feel like I have a chance
BUT frustration in me also comes from players who clearly do not have a clue and make god awful plays ..... this I need to control as I suppose I will meet these players even on the biggest stage.
I also don't like feeling restricted (or lack discipline ) so I am chalking up the first month as a LEARNING CURVE and adjusting my plan.

Target

To build a bankroll to cover play in the $1500 PL Omaha Hi/Lo at WSOP 2009 + all flights and expenses (approx $3500)

By

June 1st 2009
327 days to go !!

Guidelines (not many)

1) Play any SnG or MTT .... BUT must explain my choices
2) Only Omaha Hi/Lo cash games
3) Loss limit of $20 per day
4) Update weekly on forum

So the journey continues

[ubermonkey1]

yeah looks like your better of sticking to hilo.
keep it up ,the rewards definately worth it in the end

[Myrie16]

So, over the past week not a lot to report. Took all but a dollar and change from the site and been playing freerolls and FPP satellites. Had a lot on so almost feel like Ive been taking a break .... plenty of time for a real finnish session at the weekend though

I did play the HORSE and NL OH8 freerolls today (finally at a decent time for me ) on Stars and made the final 10 tables each time so have 2 Weekly round 2 tickets ...... does anyone know if these freerolls are always NL HE ??
Usual freerolls but with field of 5400 and 3200 I felt I made some good plays (and rode a little luck) to plough through the field. Once we were down to the final 10 tables everyone won the same ticket so no practice at "final stages" play.

Have downloaded poker tracker Omaha and been taking a look at that to help with any cash OH8 I play ..... it's all a bit technical for me Sure I will get the hang of it soon but if anyone has any beginners tips for the Omaha Tracker would be appreciated ..... if it helps me will purchase a copy.

Right now my balance on Stars is $2.30 - when my head is clear of other distractions and I can plan some proper play time, I will put some money back on and think carefully about the limits I decide to play, time to give the cash games a go I think

In the meantime I have added another tourney as a goal .... I plan to play in Event 11 of the WCOOP on Stars .... PL OH8 buy in $320 .... ideally I'll qualify through a satellite so Im gonna play a few of their cheap satellites to collect some tourney dollars (as they dont seem to have one for this event outright). You can get some rebuys at $2-4 (unfortunately in NL HE), but the fields tend to be quite week and I've done ok in these in the past ....

[uhudazflo]

they do omaha and stud occasionally on a sunday [weekly rnd 2].

ive got over 30 weekly rnd 2 tickets from ages ago when i used the freerolls to learn razz,horse and stud h/l

i should use them up but i can't be bothered to do the holdem ones and im usually busy on sundays.

best of luck with the rest of your challenge

[Myrie16]

Originally Posted by uhudazflo

they do omaha and stud occasionally on a sunday [weekly rnd 2].

ive got over 30 weekly rnd 2 tickets from ages ago when i used the freerolls to learn razz,horse and stud h/l

i should use them up but i can't be bothered to do the holdem ones and im usually busy on sundays.

best of luck with the rest of your challenge

Used to play these freerolls all the time when I first started (many moons ago ) and in over a hundred I did not win a single Round 2 ticket Put me off poker for a while but I like to think this shows I play better "bingo" if nothing else

Cheers for the tip ... like you not sure I'd use these tickets in the HE round 2

[Myrie16]

No proper poker for a week - played a live home game on saturday so managed to get my "fix" one way or another

Home games in Finland are just the same as the UK with one big difference ..... the sauna is on the whole time so when you crash out, you just grab a 'sauna beer' and chill for a while. I'm thinking that's why they are all so aggressive

While not playing, I have been looking around at some of the tournies and have found another that I want to add to my list. So far it is at 3 .....

7th August 2008 - Full Tilt
FTOPS Event 2 - $240 + 16
PL Omaha Hi/Lo (Knockout)

10th September 2008 - Poker Stars
WCOOP Event Event 11 - $300 + 20
PL Omaha Hi/Lo

2009 - Live
WSOP any $1500 - $2000 PL Omaha Hi/Lo

For the first online event, I will try to qualify, but if that doesn't work I will buy straight in. Hopefully these bigger buy-in tournies will;
a) give me a chance to play against some of the better players
b) any cash finish would be a nice little earner

There is also a weekly game on Stars ($215 buy in), that would be ideal to play once a month.

On the resource side, defintiely going to get a full version of Omaha Tracker - now that I have tried it, I think there is definitely value in the information for the cash game play. There are lots of weak cash game players in Hi/Lo so if I can just find them ......

Also have drawn up a list of titles on amazon that I will read (and maybe review for the forum) ..... not sure how useful they will be.
Tend to find with poker books these days, a lot are basic stuff with little or no depth. Then there are others that are so poorly written you (or I !) give up a few chapters in.

If anyone has any reccomendations for books on Omaha Hi/Lo, 7 Stud Hi/Lo or Razz, would welcome the suggestions. May save me some wasted time and money

So, not a lot of poker to report on but play another HORSE freeroll in about 30mins .....

313 days to go
Challenge Fund = about -$100

[Myrie16]

300th out of 3188 in today's HORSE freeroll.

Had a specific strategy for this and it seemed to work well.

Definite holes in my play are Stud and Limit HE (to a lesser extent). Played more aggressively in my stronger games once the blinds got high ..... found it's easier to steal pots in Razz especially when people are relatively short stacked (5 - 10 big bets).

But exit hand was in Razz, started with 2-3-5, then hit a 6 against 2 callers both showing 10 high ... big stack won the hand with 7 high, I didn't improve

Half my chips (4k) were in on 4th st .... was this too aggressive ?
I had 8k and big stack holding 50k .... should I have played more cautiously or was it correct to push what I considered to be the strongest hand ?

EDIT : At this point big bet was 1200 I think.

[Valiant23]

Can you find the HH for it Myrie?


btw, I'm planning on playing the WCOOP Razz event. Same as you, I'll try and sat my way in, but if not I'm going to buy-in for this.

My strategy may seem simplistic, but I find it works well against those who try and bluff with strong upcards. Basically I start with 8 high. and play as long as I can beat what I'm looking at PLUS thee strongest possible downcards. If I'm in with a chance then I let them take the lead, but its amazing how many people can see you are showing 6 high and think that you're playing with paint.

It surprises me how many people raise with a hand like TA[3], only to be forced to fold when they get dealt 2 paint cards, after they've been the aggressor.

[Myrie16]

Originally Posted by Valiant23

Can you find the HH for it Myrie?


My strategy may seem simplistic, but I find it works well against those who try and bluff with strong upcards.

It surprises me how many people raise with a hand like TA[3], only to be forced to fold when they get dealt 2 paint cards, after they've been the aggressor.

It may sound simplistic, but I bet it works With so much info around you sometimes best thing to do is play what you see ...... (is there a poker version of catchphrase ??)

Will defo rail you in that one .

HH ??
(Here is where you tell me an obvious answer and I feel stupid )

EDIT : Hand History !!! Now Im with it !
Will try and dig it out, sure I got the tourney number still ...

[Myrie16]

Finally some time for an update .... more bad news on the way

My aims were really to get back to winning but also to concentrate as much on PL Omaha8 as possible - the Full Tilt tourney I plan to play is next week so countdown time !

Final week of the month split my time across 4 sites. My lack of success on Stars was beginning to get to me so thought a change of site might refresh my game (and maybe bring weaker opponents).

Poker Trillion

Deposited $20 to play the PL/Blonde tourney, used the rest on Omaha PL cash tables ($0.10/0.25). Never any traffic on the hi/lo so this was my second alternative.

In 3 sessions moved it up to $130 Cashed out $100 then lost the other 30 on day 3.

Net profit - $80

I don't consider Omaha HI to be a strong game for me, but this is not the first time I've had success on the cash tables. Put this down to some very loose/poor play on these tables - seemed to get callers on all of my big hands up against mainly 2 pair and no draw

Doyles Room

Only played freerolls before on here but fancied a change of scenery. Deposited $30 and played only PL Omaha Hi-Lo.
Won my first 2 SnGs (1 x $5, 10 seater, 1 x €5 6 seater), can't remember what happened next but on day 2 sat down with $75 on a cash game ($0.50/$1).

Session lasted over an hour in which I peaked at $180 and left with $135.
One very aggressive player who doubled me up when down to $50 then took the rest of his chips. Table went down to heads up when I had $160 and left because I felt the other guy was getting the upper hand on me - and didnt wanna lose all my cash

Cashed out $100. On days 3 and 4 I basically wasted the cash playing the first tournies that were available when I was online - all NL HE and lost them all Lesson in that !

Net Profit - $70

Party Poker

Deposited $50 and soon doubled that up with a combination of a $5 SnG win and 2 profitable cash sessions ($0.25/0.50).

Then it went downhill on sunday ...... halved my bankroll in a $2 rebuy (crashed out after contributing $12), a $25 cash loss in 3 hands and 2 more "no cashes" in SnGs

On monday I came back for more and dropped my whole stack + another $50 deposit playing cash tables.

With my mind on tilt I deposited another $50 but decided to take a break for a couple of days .....

Net Profit - -$100

Poker Stars

Deposited $109,82 friday night, lost $50 within an hour on a $0,25/50 PL cash table. Bubbled in 4 SnGs (2 x $3, 1 x $6, 1 x $16) in a row and felt thoroughly dejected

Re-deposited, played a couple of MTTs (incl. 2 Omaha Hi with 1 cash), 11 SnGs (2 x 2nd places in $16 and $6, 1 x 3rd in $6 and rest no cashes) - there were a couple of HU games in this in which I won 1 of 3 .... hmmm
End result I lost all $30 again by Monday
On the positive side, my 2nd place finish was in an 9 seat LIMIT game. Felt I played this one well, patient in the early stages and only really got involved (due to lack of starting hands) once we were down to 5. Lucky I guess to get hands when the blinds went up - but you must get hands sometimes right ?? Difference I felt was that I actually had chips to play with by the time this happened rather than be out already playing mediocre hands.

Came back with $40 more and went through that playing 3 rebuy tournies - 1 Omaha Hi, 1 Omaha8 PL.

Wednesday - deposited $40 and focused on HU games. Started by winning first 2, then only 1 of next 5 - $11 except 1 x $6.
Switched to 2 table SnGs and a fwe more HU all at $3 - dropped the lot.

Friday did not play - same as with party poker, I have put another $50 on there but took the chance of a day off while I contemplate what is going on.

Net Profit - -$215

-------------------------------------------------

So in all I have deposited about $265 and have about $100 left .....

304 days to go
Challenge Fund = about -$265

If anyone has any questions or suggestions this might help my work out what is going wrong. Definitely had some tilt issues in the past week. The money doesn't bother me so uch (maybe it should ) but not being consistent and profitable I do not like ..... there are obviously some flaws in my game/approach so I need help I take everything personally so please be brutal with your thoughts if you need to .... I will take even the nicest comment the wrong way sometimes so no point to hold back

I have the $240 + 16 tourney on Full Tilt next week and am considering whether I am ready for this or not .... I am prepared to buy-in (will try to satellite in) but don't know whether this is foolish ignorance of what has happened over the past month or valid confidence that I am capable of playing.

Either way - it is the weekend And the premier league kicks off in 2 weeks So plenty to be positive about



EDIT : sorry for the long posts .... don't often have time to update so you get it all in one hit !

[Valiant23]

Brutal?


Here goes (although it may be lost on you)......you're playing like Jaded when he's on holiday.


Jaded is a teacher and when he is on holiday he likes to play poker....but he likes ALL forms of poker, including 2-7 triple draw and the like. If there is a tournament starting in two minutes of when he fires Pokerstars up, then he is in...giving little consideration for the bankroll management...but this is his entertainment - he plays for the enjoyment and isn't always concerned with the end result.

It may be the lack of regular updates, but that is how the post above reads. Sorry.

As regards your tactics...its hard to comment on an approach towards your challenge because it seems so vague you'll play all forms of poker and all types of tournaments - maybe this is the problem?

You seem to do well playing Omaha hi/lo cash....is that true?

If so, then why don't you focus on that strength to help your long term goals?

If you suffer a 'boredom' playing cash games for too long and need the thrill of the tournament I can suggest a compromise.

Play cash games with the approach that this is funding your tournament play. Take to the table what you were planning on losing (paying for) in tournaments and try and double your buy-in.

I hope you succeed in your challenge (apart from the obvious $$ it will bring, but because I think 'us' variant players are thin on the ground.

[Myrie16]

Very frank and honest comments ... thanks Valiant.

Your summary has rings of truth to it. As I was reading it I looked at the 3 games I have played today - $10 Omaha8 SnG, $20 HORSE heads up and $6 Omaha8 rebuy .... all games I enjoy & can easily afford but no real pattern other than these were available at the time and I am going out for a beer this afternoon

Yes I do well in cash games - both Omaha and Omaha8.
In the past I always used to play these to fund my awful Hold Em play ... I would join a HE tourney for fun, with a cash table at the same time to make back the buy-in I knew I would likely lose .... to some this may same silly, but I play HE games online 80% for fun and 20% with a desire to win

I decided on this challenge after a month showing more than $2k profit in a variety of MTTs (Razz, Stud Hi-Lo, Omaha and Omaha8). I have always known which games I'm stronger in and hoped (still hope) along the course of the next year I will develop some discipline and improve these games.

Other problem I have noticed is that I tend not to plan sessions - I don't know when I will have time so I play as much as I can when I am online.

So, I will take your advice and play some cash games on each site with a particular tourney in mind. I will see how I go over the weekend but it is pretty likely I will play the Full Tilt tourney (even if I have to buy in directly). This should also make for shorter posts !

I have not bought Omaha Tracker yet (trying to earn it through a promotion) but once I do I will try to post some stats and HH so you can dissect my play with a bit more info.

Thanks again for the input