How far is it fair to go with Sit Outs?

[SilentJay]

Originally Posted by slick mick

I would always play to eliminate the sitouts before the genuine players as a matter of respect for them and the game.

[Dave488]

Originally Posted by Dodger

One of the earlier rounds there were only two of us ''playing'' and we were directly opposite with four sit-outs on either side.
Not a single word was spoken.
We very quickly settled into a rhythm where I took the four blinds round to him and he took the four blinds round to me.
If anybody looked at the full history I was folding AA, KK, QQ over and over again and I am sure that he was too...it would have screemed collusion, but there was none...we had zero contact.
I wanted the chips and clearly he did too.

So this tournament is throwing up so many problems and they are all directly related to the sitouts.

If it was my tournament I would email those who don't play and tell them they'll be thrown out of any game if they are not at the table within ten minutes of the start...that would help.

It was me dodger, as you say we never said anything in the chat, so there was no agreement as such, but it was obvious that we decided to share the blinds between us as why should we knock each other out and then therefore allow the sitouts to get more points than ourselves. In my opinion it cannot be collusion if there was no verbal agreement.

Surely a similar situation is when you are on the final table of a tourney, where the small stack pushes all in and is called by two other players and 9 times out of 10 they will check it down to give them the best chance to eliminate the player and therefore move up the prize ladder, this is not considered collusion is it? Unless of course somewhere suggests checking it down, then it is a totally different matter in my opinion?

Anyway the best solution is to get rid of the sit outs all together as it is spoiling this league. Surely the easiest way to do this is to make everyone manual register before hand as in the heads up league. As clearly e sport can't alter the way the software handles them, my thoughts anyway.

[Dave488]

ooops.

[teaulc]

Originally Posted by slick mick

I would always play to eliminate the sitouts before the genuine players as a matter of respect for them and the game.

my sentiments exactly as witnessed by yourself on sunday

[slick mick]

Originally Posted by teaulc

my sentiments exactly as witnessed by yourself on sunday

Except for that time when it was folded round to you and you folded to 2 sitouts

[GotaFancy?]

Originally Posted by slick mick

Except for that time when it was folded round to you and you folded to 2 sitouts

You mean Al was colluding with the sit outs?

[teaulc]

Originally Posted by slick mick

Except for that time when it was folded round to you and you folded to 2 sitouts

if i did it was because i had 3 other tables going,

[Dodger]

Originally Posted by teaulc

if i did it was because i had 3 other tables going,

You DID!

I was surprised at the time, but we all do it sometimes don't we?

[runadrum]

I'm with Mick completely on this one.

I have shouted at too many players when they are the last to act and have folded to sitouts to start playing a similar game myself, whatever the circumstances.

Having the software automatically fold the cards of a sitout in the big blind - as long as they have been called - is the simplest solution.

[GotaFancy?]

Ok - before the start I'm going to clarify my intent for this.....

I have heard nothing that persuades me that the strategy is either against the rules, or unsporting (indeed with the open discussion and "declaration of intent" here - I believe from a sporting context we've gone the other way and are being over sporting in a way we wouldn't be with non PL'rs).

There has been no reply posted by morl from his query to pokerroom.
Esport have I'm sure seen this thread, but have not expressed anything to suggest they believe this is against either the rules or the spirit of the rules.

It is my intention to use all legal tactics tonight against the sit outs to maximise my (and my teams) chances - I believe the play against the sit outs to be the fundamental strategic challenge of these tournaments and cannot help myself but to rise to this challenge. In the interests of a level and equal playing field for all, I suggest we all play by the same rules and ethics.....

I will not be deliberately sitting out to try and get games frozen - as I said, I think this is a bit more morally dubious (and as slapdash pointed out - in some circumstances against the rules too) - I also think that if frozen games become too frequent then it will seriously risk "bringing down the league" - there have been problems, there have been issues, but working well, I believe it will be a good, fun, competitive, enjoyable format and I would like to see it suceed. In contrast however, I will not avoid knocking active players out to stop the game from being frozen. I think we have to trust that in that circumstance, when eSport eventually get around to sorting it out, they will act properly in awarding points to players still in (on some basis of their chip counts) and no points to those eliminated.....

At the end of the day, I think any set of rules and ethics are fair and reasonable, so long as it is the same for everyone - by declaring my intent here in advance, hopefully it will be a level playing field