Euro 2008 Matches (Sep 8) - The Punters Lounge

davidmphill · 03-09-2007, 18:31

Saturday 8 September 2007
	Home	Draw	Away	BPP
Hungary v Bosnia & Herzegovina (15:00 BST)	2.32	3.50	3.40	102%
Scotland v Lithuania (15:00 BST)	1.40	5.00	11.00	101%
Georgia v Ukraine (16:00 BST)	7.00	3.90	1.66	101%
Luxembourg v Slovenia (16:00 BST)	12.00	5.65	1.33	102%
Russia v Macedonia (16:00 BST)	1.22	6.00	15.50	105%
Belarus v Romania (17:00 BST)	6.20	3.85	1.65	103%
England v Israel (17:00 BST)	1.35	5.20	13.50	101%
Latvia v Northern Ireland (17:15 BST)	3.75	3.50	2.25	100%
Malta v Turkey (18:30 BST)	18.00	6.75	1.20	104%
Moldova v Norway (19:00 BST)	8.20	4.50	1.53	100%
San Marino v Czech Republic (19:15 BST)	101.00	36.00	1.02	102%
Serbia v Finland (19:15 BST)	1.46	4.30	8.60	104%
Croatia v Estonia (19:30 BST)	1.15	7.00	23.00	106%
Netherlands v Bulgaria (19:30 BST)	1.44	4.70	9.20	102%
Slovakia v Republic of Ireland (19:30 BST)	2.66	3.45	2.87	102%
Sweden v Denmark (19:30 BST)	2.14	3.40	4.00	102%
Wales v Germany (19:30 BST)	8.80	4.60	1.50	100%
Italy v France (19:50 BST)	2.26	3.25	3.75	102%
Iceland v Spain (21:00 BST)	12.00	5.00	1.33	104%
Portugal v Poland (21:00 BST)	1.48	4.40	9.40	101%

cozzy · 03-09-2007, 23:22

Not great value for most matches, but i'll be on N.Ieland. We have been brilliant going forward lately and Healy is hot at the moment, but most of all the team looks more together than it used to be and defensively quite sound, apart from last minute goal in last game. So at odds of 5/4 against Lativia i'll be taking it.

I also like the looks of a few halftime/fulltime. Had luck with a ht/ft double tonight so might try the same. Ones that interest me so far are:

5/6 Spain HTFT
Spain will have far to much for Iceland and i expect them to get an early goal.

13/8 Romania HTFT
This one may be a bit risky but Romania, but Romania are playing some really good football and sit top of their group above Bulgaria and Holland. This could be a big win for them and i expect them to go for it.

5/6 Norway HTFT
Norway are joint 2nd in group with Turkey and Bosnia, and know that they will need to take all 3 points for bottom Moldova to have a chance of progressing. i expect them to win this.

Still early days yet and hard to judge not hearing much team news but, better odds now so try and get on as soon as possible i say.

American Locksmith · 03-09-2007, 23:49

Looking at a Treble this weekend should be a winner Portugal England And Russia all to win at home pays a little more than even money. England at home should take care of israel. Portugal back at home needing a win where they have been perfect so far Poland sit atop the table and are due to drop points here it is. Russia at home is playing Macedonia they won away at Macedonia 2-0 again sould ne no problem at home GL to All!

Select #1 : Int Soccer
England 9/8/2007
Money Line -350 for Game
Select #2 : Int Soccer
Portugal 9/8/2007
Money Line -250 for Game
Select #3 : Int Soccer
Russia 9/8/2007
Money Line -550 for Game
Amount : Risking 1,500.00 To Win 1,690.91 USD

gerrie26681 · 04-09-2007, 08:50

Apart from the obvious few matches there's a couple with early odds that are a bit out of line imo.

Russia at home to Macedonia are trading around 1.32 on betfair so I've taken them early. I'd have Russia around 1.22 or 1.20 tbh so I think the odds are generous here.

Despite their injury problems I think England will have too much for Israel and can see them winning 2-0. I think if England fail to win they can kiss goodbye to Euro 2008. Odds are not over the top at 1.36 on Betfair. I might watch the first 10mins or so and if I like what I see go in running with England to win.

Northern Ireland I'll skip. Just have a feeling they will slip up and think a 1-1 draw is the likely result.

Serbia odds have really surprised me. At home to Finland and they are 1.48 on Betfair? I mean Serbia have had a slip up in the last match fair enuf but they can still qualify or finish 2nd in the group for the playoffs. Finland are a poor side with only Hyypia and Forsell notable names in the squad. I believe with Stankovic and Zigic and co Seriba will pick up the three points to get their campaign back on track. I've taken this early again.

Spain for reasons already stated above should easily dispose of Iceland with good odds of 1.33 available.

Finally Wales at home to Germany. Germany at almost 1.50 on Betfair to win in Cardiff. Germany have looked very impressive in this group. Wales have looked kack. I sometimes wonder if Toshack knows what he's doing. Cant see Wales getting anything from this game and victory here will all but seal Germanys qualification for Euro 2008.

So bets are:

Serbia 10/10
Russia 10/10
Spain 10/10
England 8/10
Germany 8/10

swampster · 04-09-2007, 09:10

England Draw some value I reckon - Israel aren;t the mugs the odds make them out to be - England hardly got any prolific goalscorers in the team. Unless Heskey and Owen are planning some kind of 2001 nostalgia party.

Monty Hall · 04-09-2007, 12:27

Its as if youve read my mind gerrie, i couldnt agree more..

CS England - Israel 2-0

Just to add that theres always a surprise in these stages, i think it will come in one of the away games.. maybe N. Ireland, maybe even Norway..
Moldova have been hard to beat at home..

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerrie26681

Apart from the obvious few matches there's a couple with early odds that are a bit out of line imo.

Russia at home to Macedonia are trading around 1.32 on betfair so I've taken them early. I'd have Russia around 1.22 or 1.20 tbh so I think the odds are generous here.

Despite their injury problems I think England will have too much for Israel and can see them winning 2-0. I think if England fail to win they can kiss goodbye to Euro 2008. Odds are not over the top at 1.36 on Betfair. I might watch the first 10mins or so and if I like what I see go in running with England to win.

Northern Ireland I'll skip. Just have a feeling they will slip up and think a 1-1 draw is the likely result.

Serbia odds have really surprised me. At home to Finland and they are 1.48 on Betfair? I mean Serbia have had a slip up in the last match fair enuf but they can still qualify or finish 2nd in the group for the playoffs. Finland are a poor side with only Hyypia and Forsell notable names in the squad. I believe with Stankovic and Zigic and co Seriba will pick up the three points to get their campaign back on track. I've taken this early again.

Spain for reasons already stated above should easily dispose of Iceland with good odds of 1.33 available.

Finally Wales at home to Germany. Germany at almost 1.50 on Betfair to win in Cardiff. Germany have looked very impressive in this group. Wales have looked kack. I sometimes wonder if Toshack knows what he's doing. Cant see Wales getting anything from this game and victory here will all but seal Germanys qualification for Euro 2008.

So bets are:

Serbia 10/10
Russia 10/10
Spain 10/10
England 8/10
Germany 8/10

clarky101 · 04-09-2007, 14:07

Scotland should beat Lithuania this weekend as six of the Lithuania squad play for Hearts (not even a top 4 team anymore in the SPL) this should result in the manditory 1-0,2-0 to Scotland.

dsmythy · 04-09-2007, 22:09

On Israel, someone was right earlier in saying people seem to have a low opinion of them. They are have only lost once in qualifying matches away from home since losing at France in October 2003. That one loss was in Northern Ireland in 2005. Draws away from home tend to be their specialty. Though despite all of this i think England will get a 2-1 victory out of it.

Northern Ireland failing to win in Latvia will just means things going back to normal. I wouldn't call it a surprise although i expect them to just about 'Healy' it.

On my dear old Republic our away record in qualifying belongs in a nightmare. I can't remember then last away qualifier game we won (against anyone outside the two lowest seed teams in each group). It must be getting on to 10 years now. So far on this campaign trail's away days we lost 1-0 to the Germans after we went there with our minds on defence. Then the recurring nightmare strikes. Cyprus hammered us 5-2 and we needed an injury time goal to beat San Marino 2-1! Germany put 13 past them. Some mornings i still wake up thinking those two results were just a nightmare. But they are very real. Lay Ireland.

The one game i really like is Hungary v Bosnia. Now i know the Fifa rankings are not much use for minute analysis but theres a difference of 40 placing between these two teams. Bosnia being the higher ranked of the two.

Hungary beat Bosnia in the other tie between these two but if you put the game out on its own the only other team they beat was Moldova. Norway put 8 goals past them in their two games and they were beaten by Malta.

Hungary ony won 2 home games in WC06 qualifying against Iceland and Malta. Anyone better than that and they tend to struggle.

Bosnia have already beaten Norway and Turkey. Why not Hungary. Bosnia to win. Anything 2/1+ ill be going after.

I know there's a few fans from the region who post here regularly. Can you guys put me of backing the Bosnians?

sajtion · 04-09-2007, 23:24

bosnian coach muzurovic has said they are going for the win and he seems to be trying to get that message across to other players. some players have also said how they have come back in these qualifiers with wins against norway and tukey and must win against hungary who practically has not chance of qualifications.

a friendly match in sarajevo last month in which bosnia played croatia in formation 3 5 2 revealed that in defence we were making too many errors. the weakest part of our game is defence unfortunately so hungary is able to score goals with attacking football like against italy.

muzurovic thinks we don't have quality goal keeper so he called up two others from the domestic league. i can't tell you about them much but they are average.

i expect we will play tighter in defence against them and good news is the misimovic and muslimovic have been both outstanding strikers for bosnia scoring both in last couple of bosnia internationals. currently all our players are fit.

one thing to note is sure bosnia is capable of beating hungary but hungary have started to rebuild their team and good form hence the surprising result against italy. hungary will obviously be confident of beating us again at home but just as the first goal was vital in the first match in zenica when we lost 1-3 it will be important again in the eventual outcome of this match.

good luck if you chose to back bosnia herzegovina

8X1 · 05-09-2007, 01:34

i'm not know much about national teams, just based on data we can know:
Histroy:
Aug 23 Friendly, Hungary 3-1 Italy
last two home match, Hungary 2-0 Moldova, 1-0 Canada
Aug 22 Friendly, Bosnia 3-5 Croatia
last two away match, Norway 2-1 Bosnia, Moldova 2-2 Bosnia
H2H
Sep 6 EC, Bosnia 1-3 Hungary
Actually, Hungary played better than Bosnia, but you should know it's very tough to play away match.
Bosnia scored every away match, it's easy too see they like attack and will never be afraid of lose. This spirit is very important to play an away match, it will help them beat Hungary.

Asian Handicap
Pinnacle Sports, 0.98 Hungary 0:1/4 Bosnia 0.94

Home match, won last match, good record, stronger, all these advantage can at least open 0:1/2, why they give you a chance to just lose a half when draw? I will never follow such strange odds.
What's going on? You guys should know it's too generous for us to order Hungary.

imo Bosnia will win 2-0 or 2-1
best odds Expekt 3.05 Bosnia
AHB Pinnacle 0.94 Bosnia

nastro 1888 · 05-09-2007, 05:50

things really hotting up in Scotlands group with 3 points now imperative if either of the top 4 teams are playing any of the bottom teams, Ukraine -1 @ 2.75 away to georgia is a nice price IMO - short jaunt to neighbouring country and need the points badly as they entertain italy on wednesday and last chance stuff here for Ukraine who are a very talented side.

Turkey -1 @ 1.66 at malta also on my list - must win 3 points against very sub-standard opposition in a climate that wont trouble the turks.

Portugal -1 @ 2.25 against Poland also catching my eye, plenty said I agree with regarding this match above, Poland dont impress me atall and big chance here for portugal to put poland on the a slide down this section, our goalkeper ( boruc ) is in outstanding form though even for Artur's standards this may be 1-way traffic and Portugal have more than enough to see them of with a rested ( prem suspended ) ronaldo awaiting.

early thoughts, but final selection on friday when squads are a bit clearer.

DeMMa · 05-09-2007, 07:34

On Centrebet They Have Turkey +1 @ $1.66

They Made A Mistake Im Loaded Up On It!!!

gerrie26681 · 05-09-2007, 09:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeMMa

On Centrebet They Have Turkey +1 @ $1.66

They Made A Mistake Im Loaded Up On It!!!

As has been stated on this forum numerous times and in so many many different cases, when the bookie makes a mistake like this they simply void the bet and return your stake to you. My friend you wont make any money and your stake will only be returned to you after the match most likely meaning you are unable to bet on any other matches.

Dumyat · 05-09-2007, 15:45

Croatia -2 on Asians have shortened up from 1.85 to 1.8 to beat Estonia.

The reverse fixture was just 1-0 away to the Croats in June - so it's by no means a cert win but I still make a price of 1.8 over a 20%+ edge.

In the exact home v away matchup the teams have met a couple of times with Estonia holding to a draw in the more recent. However the stats reckon a Croatia win is over 90% chance and it's unlikely to be by just 1.

19950903

7

1

H

4

1

Croatia

Estonia

20020907

0

X

0

Croatia

Estonia

Some important team news UEFA.COM: Estonia's preparations for their Group E double-header against Croatia and F.Y.R. Macedonia have suffered a significant blow after No1 goalkeeper Mart Poom was ruled out with a back injury.
With Poom's understudy, Artur Kotenko, out with a broken finger, FK Bodo/Glimt's Pavel Londak is likely to add to his three international appearances.
Estonia coach Viggo Jensen has called up FC Flora Tallinn's uncapped Mihkel Aksalu, 22, as backup.

The price on -2 keeps contracting now about 1.72 - still a good edge.

Stan James straight handicap on Croats -2 ie win by 3 or more to win is 2.375 and a big edge if you have already missed 1.8 on -2 Asian.

c_daRk · 05-09-2007, 16:28

I am thinking of taking Czech on handicap...now it depends what the handicap will be... When Germany played against San Marino the handicap was -7 for the germans and they won 6-0.

Just saw that the bookies offer Czech -4.5 @ 1.92, Party Bets. I think this should be taken.

Also Spain -1.5 is available @ 1.98, bet365, looks attractive.

03-09-2007, 23:22	#2 (permalink)
cozzy Newbie Punter Join Date: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 45	Re: Euro 2008 Matches (Sep 8) Not great value for most matches, but i'll be on N.Ieland. We have been brilliant going forward lately and Healy is hot at the moment, but most of all the team looks more together than it used to be and defensively quite sound, apart from last minute goal in last game. So at odds of 5/4 against Lativia i'll be taking it. I also like the looks of a few halftime/fulltime. Had luck with a ht/ft double tonight so might try the same. Ones that interest me so far are: 5/6 Spain HTFT Spain will have far to much for Iceland and i expect them to get an early goal. 13/8 Romania HTFT This one may be a bit risky but Romania, but Romania are playing some really good football and sit top of their group above Bulgaria and Holland. This could be a big win for them and i expect them to go for it. 5/6 Norway HTFT Norway are joint 2nd in group with Turkey and Bosnia, and know that they will need to take all 3 points for bottom Moldova to have a chance of progressing. i expect them to win this. Still early days yet and hard to judge not hearing much team news but, better odds now so try and get on as soon as possible i say.

03-09-2007, 23:49	#3 (permalink)
American Locksmith Blue Collared Punter Join Date: 10 Aug 2007 Age: 23 Posts: 229	Re: Euro 2008 Matches (Sep 8) Looking at a Treble this weekend should be a winner Portugal England And Russia all to win at home pays a little more than even money. England at home should take care of israel. Portugal back at home needing a win where they have been perfect so far Poland sit atop the table and are due to drop points here it is. Russia at home is playing Macedonia they won away at Macedonia 2-0 again sould ne no problem at home GL to All! Select #1 : Int Soccer England 9/8/2007 Money Line -350 for Game Select #2 : Int Soccer Portugal 9/8/2007 Money Line -250 for Game Select #3 : Int Soccer Russia 9/8/2007 Money Line -550 for Game Amount : Risking 1,500.00 To Win 1,690.91 USD Last edited by American Locksmith; 03-09-2007 at 23:50.

04-09-2007, 08:50	#4 (permalink)
gerrie26681 Seasoned Punter Join Date: 11 Oct 2006 Location: Cork, Ireland Age: 27 Posts: 335	Re: Euro 2008 Matches (Sep 8) Apart from the obvious few matches there's a couple with early odds that are a bit out of line imo. Russia at home to Macedonia are trading around 1.32 on betfair so I've taken them early. I'd have Russia around 1.22 or 1.20 tbh so I think the odds are generous here. Despite their injury problems I think England will have too much for Israel and can see them winning 2-0. I think if England fail to win they can kiss goodbye to Euro 2008. Odds are not over the top at 1.36 on Betfair. I might watch the first 10mins or so and if I like what I see go in running with England to win. Northern Ireland I'll skip. Just have a feeling they will slip up and think a 1-1 draw is the likely result. Serbia odds have really surprised me. At home to Finland and they are 1.48 on Betfair? I mean Serbia have had a slip up in the last match fair enuf but they can still qualify or finish 2nd in the group for the playoffs. Finland are a poor side with only Hyypia and Forsell notable names in the squad. I believe with Stankovic and Zigic and co Seriba will pick up the three points to get their campaign back on track. I've taken this early again. Spain for reasons already stated above should easily dispose of Iceland with good odds of 1.33 available. Finally Wales at home to Germany. Germany at almost 1.50 on Betfair to win in Cardiff. Germany have looked very impressive in this group. Wales have looked kack. I sometimes wonder if Toshack knows what he's doing. Cant see Wales getting anything from this game and victory here will all but seal Germanys qualification for Euro 2008. So bets are: Serbia 10/10 Russia 10/10 Spain 10/10 England 8/10 Germany 8/10

04-09-2007, 09:10	#5 (permalink)
swampster Flush Ed Join Date: 31 Jul 2001 Location: london Age: 34 Posts: 3,727	Re: Euro 2008 Matches (Sep 8) England Draw some value I reckon - Israel aren;t the mugs the odds make them out to be - England hardly got any prolific goalscorers in the team. Unless Heskey and Owen are planning some kind of 2001 nostalgia party.

04-09-2007, 14:07	#7 (permalink)
clarky101 Jonah Punter Join Date: 17 Apr 2006 Location: Bexhill Posts: 1,175	Re: Euro 2008 Matches (Sep 8) Scotland should beat Lithuania this weekend as six of the Lithuania squad play for Hearts (not even a top 4 team anymore in the SPL) this should result in the manditory 1-0,2-0 to Scotland. __________________ i came into this world with nothing & pretty much still got it !!!!!!!!!

04-09-2007, 22:09	#8 (permalink)
dsmythy Dublin Punter Join Date: 21 Jul 2007 Location: Dublin Age: 24 Posts: 93	Re: Euro 2008 Matches (Sep 8) On Israel, someone was right earlier in saying people seem to have a low opinion of them. They are have only lost once in qualifying matches away from home since losing at France in October 2003. That one loss was in Northern Ireland in 2005. Draws away from home tend to be their specialty. Though despite all of this i think England will get a 2-1 victory out of it. Northern Ireland failing to win in Latvia will just means things going back to normal. I wouldn't call it a surprise although i expect them to just about 'Healy' it. On my dear old Republic our away record in qualifying belongs in a nightmare. I can't remember then last away qualifier game we won (against anyone outside the two lowest seed teams in each group). It must be getting on to 10 years now. So far on this campaign trail's away days we lost 1-0 to the Germans after we went there with our minds on defence. Then the recurring nightmare strikes. Cyprus hammered us 5-2 and we needed an injury time goal to beat San Marino 2-1! Germany put 13 past them. Some mornings i still wake up thinking those two results were just a nightmare. But they are very real. Lay Ireland. The one game i really like is Hungary v Bosnia. Now i know the Fifa rankings are not much use for minute analysis but theres a difference of 40 placing between these two teams. Bosnia being the higher ranked of the two. Hungary beat Bosnia in the other tie between these two but if you put the game out on its own the only other team they beat was Moldova. Norway put 8 goals past them in their two games and they were beaten by Malta. Hungary ony won 2 home games in WC06 qualifying against Iceland and Malta. Anyone better than that and they tend to struggle. Bosnia have already beaten Norway and Turkey. Why not Hungary. Bosnia to win. Anything 2/1+ ill be going after. I know there's a few fans from the region who post here regularly. Can you guys put me of backing the Bosnians?

04-09-2007, 23:24	#9 (permalink)
sajtion Junior Punter Join Date: 18 Nov 2006 Posts: 50	Re: Euro 2008 Matches (Sep 8) bosnian coach muzurovic has said they are going for the win and he seems to be trying to get that message across to other players. some players have also said how they have come back in these qualifiers with wins against norway and tukey and must win against hungary who practically has not chance of qualifications. a friendly match in sarajevo last month in which bosnia played croatia in formation 3 5 2 revealed that in defence we were making too many errors. the weakest part of our game is defence unfortunately so hungary is able to score goals with attacking football like against italy. muzurovic thinks we don't have quality goal keeper so he called up two others from the domestic league. i can't tell you about them much but they are average. i expect we will play tighter in defence against them and good news is the misimovic and muslimovic have been both outstanding strikers for bosnia scoring both in last couple of bosnia internationals. currently all our players are fit. one thing to note is sure bosnia is capable of beating hungary but hungary have started to rebuild their team and good form hence the surprising result against italy. hungary will obviously be confident of beating us again at home but just as the first goal was vital in the first match in zenica when we lost 1-3 it will be important again in the eventual outcome of this match. good luck if you chose to back bosnia herzegovina

05-09-2007, 01:34	#10 (permalink)
8X1 Newbie Punter Join Date: 04 Sep 2007 Posts: 14	Re: Euro 2008 Matches (Sep 8) i'm not know much about national teams, just based on data we can know: Histroy: Aug 23 Friendly, Hungary 3-1 Italy last two home match, Hungary 2-0 Moldova, 1-0 Canada Aug 22 Friendly, Bosnia 3-5 Croatia last two away match, Norway 2-1 Bosnia, Moldova 2-2 Bosnia H2H Sep 6 EC, Bosnia 1-3 Hungary Actually, Hungary played better than Bosnia, but you should know it's very tough to play away match. Bosnia scored every away match, it's easy too see they like attack and will never be afraid of lose. This spirit is very important to play an away match, it will help them beat Hungary. Asian Handicap Pinnacle Sports, 0.98 Hungary 0:1/4 Bosnia 0.94 Home match, won last match, good record, stronger, all these advantage can at least open 0:1/2, why they give you a chance to just lose a half when draw? I will never follow such strange odds. What's going on? You guys should know it's too generous for us to order Hungary. imo Bosnia will win 2-0 or 2-1 best odds Expekt 3.05 Bosnia AHB Pinnacle 0.94 Bosnia Last edited by 8X1; 05-09-2007 at 01:36.

05-09-2007, 05:50	#11 (permalink)
nastro 1888 charcharadon charcharias Join Date: 23 Mar 2005 Location: Port Glasgow Scotland Age: 38 Posts: 1,680	Re: Euro 2008 Matches (Sep 8) things really hotting up in Scotlands group with 3 points now imperative if either of the top 4 teams are playing any of the bottom teams, Ukraine -1 @ 2.75 away to georgia is a nice price IMO - short jaunt to neighbouring country and need the points badly as they entertain italy on wednesday and last chance stuff here for Ukraine who are a very talented side. Turkey -1 @ 1.66 at malta also on my list - must win 3 points against very sub-standard opposition in a climate that wont trouble the turks. Portugal -1 @ 2.25 against Poland also catching my eye, plenty said I agree with regarding this match above, Poland dont impress me atall and big chance here for portugal to put poland on the a slide down this section, our goalkeper ( boruc ) is in outstanding form though even for Artur's standards this may be 1-way traffic and Portugal have more than enough to see them of with a rested ( prem suspended ) ronaldo awaiting. early thoughts, but final selection on friday when squads are a bit clearer.

05-09-2007, 07:34	#12 (permalink)
DeMMa Melbourne Victory FC Join Date: 09 Jun 2007 Location: Melbourne Victory FC Posts: 310	Re: Euro 2008 Matches (Sep 8) On Centrebet They Have Turkey +1 @ $1.66 They Made A Mistake Im Loaded Up On It!!!

05-09-2007, 16:28	#15 (permalink)
c_daRk Seasoned Punter Join Date: 19 Nov 2006 Posts: 345	Re: Euro 2008 Matches (Sep 8) I am thinking of taking Czech on handicap...now it depends what the handicap will be... When Germany played against San Marino the handicap was -7 for the germans and they won 6-0. Just saw that the bookies offer Czech -4.5 @ 1.92, Party Bets. I think this should be taken. Also Spain -1.5 is available @ 1.98, bet365, looks attractive. __________________ Punctul de plecare e mereu Stefan cel Mare ! Last edited by c_daRk; 05-09-2007 at 16:32.