Euro 2004 play-offs

[edtkh]

You didn't say they were the best team in Europe? So it was Slobodan Milosevic who sent his cronies to coerce you to suggest 'Croatia is the best home team in Europe and relaxing play by them after 1:0 is the only reason why Slovenia took a draw.' ? Funny how credible your statements are really.


FYI, I merely said the bet on the Dutch to score at 1.22 was a 'snip of the week' and 'hell of a bargain' - at no stage, did I ever imply(directly or otherwise) or suggest that Holland failing to score has no chance of happening! Which is quite unlike your tone - maybe you would like to use you head a little more and refer to the penultimate sentence in the last paragraph of the post you made on 14/11/03 at 14:27 and tell me if you suggested that a certain event had no chance of happening..

Edtkh,

Or maybe your head is as useful as your command of English

Have you ever tried speaking to Kojic in his own language? How good is your Serbian? Could you happily go onto a Serbian betting forum and get your points across in more than fluent Serbian?

Questioning his language skills are out of order unless you are more than fluent in his native language IMO. Personally I have a lot of respect for someone who can speak/read/write a 2nd language as well as he does considering the majority of the UK seem to have problems with it even though its their native language.

And personal insults don't help anyone come across as a particularly intelligent person either. Kojic may be a bit strong minded and opiniated at times but again, you try and emphasise your point strongly in a 2nd language!

Finally, on the point your arguing over, I can't see Kojic saying Croatia are the best team in Europe, he said best HOME team and he based that on them NEVER losing a qualification match, in any tournament at home.

Ok, maybe thats still a little bit of a over the top statement but how would you describe a team who had never lost a home game in any qualification tournament in Serbian? And your point of listing home teams records in the Euro 2004 qualifiers seems a bit wasted when he is talking about all tournaments does it not?

Ohh, and both of you pointing out instances of the other making/posting losing selections is out of order and not what this forum is about.

[bagehot]

Time someone put a pause on this exchange of arguments, I thought...

Now I must say that I feel that there is some rather awkward pricing going on regarding the Euro 2004 playoffs. Holland lost 1-0 to Scotland, have what is surely a hard task ahead of them, and yet are priced 2/9 to win the match and 4/9 to qualify! I certainly cannot understand why they should be considered such strong favourites to come through. Besides, there should be considerable money pouring on Scotland to take this one.

The Spanish are very highly rated against a Norwegian side that gave them so much trouble on Saturday. I certainly don't fancy them to be strong favourites to win the match away. A draw would seem more likely to me - after all, it's not as if a 2-1 scoreline at home induced a team to play the 2nd leg on the offensive.

You didn't say they were the best team in Europe? So it was Slobodan Milosevic who sent his cronies to coerce you to suggest 'Croatia is the best home team in Europe and relaxing play by them after 1:0 is the only reason why Slovenia took a draw.' ?

Are you from circus or what?You can write like this the whole day?
Please,you should see the match first!Then check the stats after the match.And then check Croatian home record in all official matches,before you write some nonsenses like "Switzerland got as many points as Croatia did at home... EURO2004 qualifications......Croatia have a 'massive' 3-1-0 home record for Euro 2004 Qualifiers".Anyway are we talking about Croatia - Slovenia match and how Slovenia took a draw or about the Croatian home record? :rolleyes

Don't understand how the bookies think sometimes...
....(let's face it, since when was there any event with a probability of 1 in football which the bookies still offer bets for?)

:rolleyes

There is no point to waste my time in this useless disussion with you!Good Luck,my friend!

[edtkh]

Crowie, look..let's get this straight - it hardly matters if I spoke another tongue(although I do, but it's not Serb :b ). The point here is, if you have been following this closely, you'd probably realise that an awful lot of sweeping statements are made on his part and that certainly can't be helpful on anyone's part(guess it's not just me who path he's crossed, maybe it's just that others have taken a milder tone :smokin )! Do we want this to be a forum where healthy debates are fostered or would you rather have someone coming on asserting stuff like 'no chance', 'best team in Europe' when there quite clearly isn't sufficient evidence to suggest so?

Man, I'd very much like to believe WBA(apologies to any Baggies fans in advance :rolleyes ) would win the bloody Champions League within the next couple of years, but how I'm going to persistently argue and defend that stand against anyone care to show me the facts pointing otherwise is anyone's guess! That's the sort of stuff you're looking at Crowie - first, he said Croatia was Europe's 'best' home team; then came it was "one of the best". Wouldn't it have been more helpful if he'd just presented Croatia's case on its merits rather than putting down the case of others without sufficient evidence to prove so? :p It's just his case of having need to win every arguement and defend every stand of his at all cost that ruffles a few feathers here(like I've said, I'm not alone here - from the responses gathered in this thread, it's quite obvious a few have taken his words beyond the norms of a rational debate!) - and to add that to boot, he doesn't always have the facts to back his stand, does he? When he does, however, of course his views are appreciated as he would always provide other punters with a more diverse opinion when considering one's bets. Surely, one's proficiency/deficiency in a particular language is no excuse to assert seemingly baseless views on everyone!

[edtkh]

It's only as lame as those arguments of yours, kojic.

Maybe you would like to seek the view of others(or maybe you were indeed watching a different game from a different planet!) - take spozzy for instance - on the Croatia match before you go round shooting your mouth off again. :p

Crowie - case in point there - first making a statement(Croatia are the best home team) then denying ever making that('Since when did I ever say Croatia are the best home team?') : you draw your own conclusions and see how much better this is than after-eventing..

[edtkh]

Oh, so you were making the judgment that Croatia are the best team at home on the basis of the Croatia-Slovenia match? Man, is this joker good at changing subjects, making sweeping statements then deny ever making it.

I'll leave you to sort this clown out, crowie.

or would you rather have someone coming on asserting stuff like 'no chance'

Jesus...
You want to be smart,but you said that Malta hasn't chance against Izrael!

And why the whole discussion has started? ...because edtkh has decided to comment how he said that Wales is equal team with Russia.

OK,I was wrong.I really expected much more from Russian team in the first leg,but I would never try to give some smart comment after the match.After all,there is the rematch!

kojic wrote:

I didn't say that Croatia is the best team in Europe!I said that Croatia is strong home team

edtkh wrote about my comment:

case in point there - first making a statement(Croatia are the best home team) then denying ever making that('Since when did I ever say Croatia are the best home team?')

:|

[edtkh]

Well, you're probably trying harder to be smart!
I don't ever remember making any statement in absolute tones - you said Wales had no chance. If you know your maths, you'd probably realise Wales drawing and Wales winning are possible outcomes in anycase - try justifying your argument that they had no chance then! And who courted this supposed row by citing the Malta-Israel comments. Mind, I'd probably be able to compile an encyclopedia if I documented every fallacious statement of yours! :b

Well, I was never directing any comment post-match at you - in fact, life would have been more peaceful if a gnome like you hadn't gone round defending every stand of yours. What I said merely clarified my point(some points would obviously have contradicted yours) : how you took offence and vigorously defended every point of yours is anyone's guess. The fact speaks for itself : Russia drew, they weren't as good as you made them out to be. Period. That was merely what I reiterated. How you could still go round shouting your mouth off sums up the way your mind works. How good you're at predicting results is one thing, how naively you could go about defending a lost cause post-match is quite another matter entirely!

Croatia is probably the only European team who has never lost any official match at home.I really don't know what edtkh wants to prove.

All comments about Croatia - Slovenia aren't only my feelings.There are a lot of facts,like h2h(Slovenia has never won in their meetings),form,individual quality of players,croatian home record which is allready mentioned,then some Slovenian players aren't 100% fit,including Zahovic,...

I said that Slovenia took a draw because Croatia has started to play relaxing after 1:0.And everybody who saw these 90min of the match can confirm that.Croatia had 13 corners,Slovenia 0!Slovenia had one single shot on the goal,and they have scored.

I would never start to comment some unknown teams,or if I don't have some good facts.Edtkh coments what I wrote,but if I'm not wrong he said that value is in Bulgaria vs.Croatia in the last round of qualifications without any infos.And even little kid had known that Bulgaria hasn't any amnbitions in that match.They came with their wifes in Croatia and that shows how seriously they were.And it's obvious that he didn't even knew what he talk about.I made a mistakes many times too,but I would never start to talk about something if I don't have at least one usefull info.Also,I will usually give my apologize if my pick lost and somebody has decided to take them.But I don't see that edtkh said anything after his pick has lost.But after Russia drew vs.Wales he has decided to be smart.

[edtkh]

There we go again with this clown.

" All comments abt Croatia-Slovenia are't only my feelings " - really? That's not my feeling and I believe there's at least 1 other chap around, spozzy, who didn't agree with you. What exactly are you trying to prove? That your view is right and it's widely accepted? Or would anyone who holds any other view besides yours be wrong?

"And everybody who saw these 90min of the match can confirm that." May I humbly ask if this is fact or opinion? Or have you no idea what the difference between facts and opinions are? :x

"Edtkh coments what I wrote,but if I'm not wrong he said that value is in Bulgaria vs.Croatia in the last round of qualifications without any infos.And even little kid had known that Bulgaria hasn't any amnbitions in that match." - really? without any info? Croatia beat Bulgaria and they still couldn't clinch an automatic spot. Try explaining how you interpret group tables then. So you're telling me Bulgaria was no value at 7.00(I remember saying I went for value here more than anything)? Or must I explain so explicitly that perhaps, more specifically, I was banking on Bulgaria to catch Croatia(who had to win to be sure of 2nd place and as events subsequently proved, anything less than a win would have seen Belgium in the playoff instead) on the break and win this by the odd goal?

"Also,I will usually give my apologize if my pick lost and somebody has decided to take them.But I don't see that edtkh said anything after his pick has lost.But after Russia drew vs.Wales he has decided to be smart. " - Apologise if your selection screws up? Tonnes of people would have been on the dole eons ago if punters had followed your(or mine or any individual's for that matter) picks blindly. It really goes to show how myopic and selective your mind is with the sort of stuff you say. For the record, I comment on my picks post-match selectively - win or lose! True, I didn't comment after Israel-Malta, but I remember cursing my own judgment after a poor Dortmund showing against Bochum some time ago. Conversely, I kept my mouth shut even after I'd gotten my Roma-Inter pick spot on. So is that not a case of your selective memory at work? And if truth be told, I never for a moment doubted Russia were better than Wales, but simply not at the odds that were widely available that day. The events which unfolded ultimately proved just that - all I said was I'd have expected odds on Wales and Russia to qualify to be closer to what they currently are with both around the same odds. :p Now, who's trying to be smart... :smokin

My friend,there is no value when you have the match who should go in one way.Croatia U21 gave 3pts to Bulgaria U21 a day before the match of A-teams.The whole Croatia knew for that and there is no point to make science here.It's not the math,you know!

I see that you can like this the whole day,so somebody has to stop this.I seems that you won't,so I have to do it.Bye!

[edtkh]

You're just talking more and more drivel aren't you? Bullshitting must be a hobby of yours I bet. What science are you on about? and what's the relevance of your U21 examples?

Funny how you contradicted yourself when you claimed to be impressed by Bulgaria in their match with Croatia in the Korea-Bulgaria friendly thread. :p

Haven't met a more naive and irrational gnome in a long while..

Bulgaria - Croatia 2:0

Hosts were excelent!

[edtkh]

So what are you trying to prove? Bulgaria were not value at 7.00 on the basis that they won the first match? Or are you trying to say you had a premonition that Croatia would win 1-0? Oh god, why don't you tell me the winning entry to the lottery as well, you messiah!

Ok you two, enough is enough. Can I remind you that getting personally involved in a slanging match is against the board guidelines. As you've probably experienced it's not productive and it certainly isn't helping any other members. If you'd like to continue the discussion please do it by PM as no-one else is probably interested.

Thanks
Garth