Random Nade Thread

[slapdash]

Originally Posted by glceud

Well you didnt, you were out played,

While I agree that Nade didn't "outplay" the pro, I can't see how he was outplayed either. All the chips going in on the flop was pretty much the par result: I think they both played it well.

[WASP]

Originally Posted by Valiant23

I'm glad we've got grumpy old men like glceud and WASP on here. They'll tell it how they see it and I hope they don't change.

HTF did I get roped into this???

I wouldn't say I'm grumpy like glceud I'm just more direct and to the point. There are some threads on here that Mr Grumpy will grump about where as I will just go and stick my hand in the blender as it is less pain

[Nade]

Ok i was slightly exaggerating 'crushed a pro' but was quite happy at winning the hand and wasn't expecting a debate about the hand so just phrased it inaccurately if you like

As i said in an earlier post Gracz played it very well, did all he could to win that hand, but likewise i did all i could to win it and the hand i went in with i.e. a pair of sevens ended up taking down the pot so don't think i was outplayed at all etc etc.

Good debate people

[Nade]

First of two posts:

Over the last 5 days inc today, only played about 12hrs but have made 11 buy-ins.

Still getting cold decked and rivered 2 outters in big pots and looking through my Queens have been done 5times for a total of -$200 but i've really not donked off much at all and i've added a couple of new dimensions to my game including more use of the check-raise OOP and just putting others under pressure when their bets don't make sense.

This hand happened a couple of days ago - I thought i played it like a ' genius' for a few hrs but as i thought more and more about the hand and other hands i had a mini eureka moment.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($53.75)
MP ($156.75)
CO ($100)
Hero ($98)
SB ($169)
BB ($101.50)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, 7.
3 folds, Hero raises to $3.5, SB calls $3, 1 fold.

Flop: ($8) 8, 3, Q (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $5, SB calls $5.

Turn: ($18) K (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $10, SB raises to $30, Hero calls $20.

River: ($78) 4 (2 players)
SB bets $64, Hero calls $59.50 (All-In).

Final Pot: $197

SB has Th 9c (high card, king).
Hero has Qh 7h (one pair, queens).
Outcome: Hero wins $197.

Ok, i read him right for a draw and won a good pot but it occured to me that WTF am i doing. I put him on a draw, thought i had the best hand on the turn but just called.

The irony of the hand is i won $197 pot by making an awful play on the turn, yet if i'd put in a re-raise all in like i should have done if i thought my hand was ahead i'd only have won a $133 pot.

It all of a sudden made sense to me to re-raise if i sense weakness in an opponent instead of calling and hoping they miss their draw and would bluff into me.

[Valiant23]

It all of a sudden made sense to me to re-raise if i sense weakness in an opponent instead of calling and hoping they miss their draw and would bluff into me.

The first part of this statement is cash game attitude, the second part is tournament attitude.

Well thought out post Nade.


We're still gonna kick your arse in the League Cup

[Nade]

Second of two posts:

These hands show how i've used the re-raise to great effect after the hand above opened my eyes to a new strategy.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($122.65)
Hero ($99.50)
MP ($102.35)
CO ($79.70)
Button ($140.60)
SB ($115.30)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K, A.
Hero calls $1, MP raises to $4.5, 2 folds, SB calls $4, 1 fold, Hero calls $3.50.

Flop: ($14.50) J, 8, T (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP checks.

Turn: ($14.50) T (3 players)
SB bets $9, Hero raises to $25, MP folds, SB calls $16.

River: ($64.50) 8 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $38, SB folds.

Final Pot: $64.50

Results in white below:
Hero has Kh As (two pair, tens and eights).
Outcome: Hero wins $64.50.

Reason i limp with AK is because i couldn't be bothered to play anymore, was just about to leave the table but felt i had to play it but then a kind situation developed. Soon as the guy calls my re-raise i know he's on a draw as checked the flop so no way he's gonna call with two T's and 8's there.


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($47)
UTG ($62.30)
MP ($121.45)
Hero ($124.90)
Button ($123.30)
SB ($60.30)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7, 7.
2 folds, Hero raises to $3.5, 2 folds, BB calls $2.50.

Flop: ($7.50) 3, 6, J (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $5, BB raises to $10, Hero calls $5.

Turn: ($27.50) Q (2 players)
BB bets $9, Hero raises to $43, BB folds.

Final Pot: $45.50

Results in white below:
No showdown. Hero wins $45.50.

Wasn't really sure what he had but it didn't seem like the play he'd make with a jack so reckoned he was on a flush draw and the Q didn't complete any draws and it was very unlikely he had a Q so i represented it instead, he was pretty tight and wasn't going to call $30 on a draw.

--------

The two hands are the most recent ones and happened today so can dig them out easily.

It just makes a lot more sense to me now to put more pressure on my opponents instead of looking to trap them although trapping i'll still do.

I've only been practicing it the last couple of days but it's proven to me to be a very useful tool so i can take pots away on later streets. Thing is it's very read dependant and i can see when not on my game and my timing's off it has the potential to lose big pots but it's definitely a good tool to use as a perceived tight player.

Maybe slightly random posts, just wanted to get my thoughts down from inside my small brain onto somewhere

Edit: A lot more thinking gone into the hands then stated but this isn't strategy so don't want to bore people with an even longer post!

[robsterling]

Originally Posted by Nade

Second of two posts:

These hands show how i've used the re-raise to great effect after the hand above opened my eyes to a new strategy.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($122.65)
Hero ($99.50)
MP ($102.35)
CO ($79.70)
Button ($140.60)
SB ($115.30)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K, A.
Hero calls $1, MP raises to $4.5, 2 folds, SB calls $4, 1 fold, Hero calls $3.50.

Flop: ($14.50) J, 8, T (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP checks.

Turn: ($14.50) T (3 players)
SB bets $9, Hero raises to $25, MP folds, SB calls $16.

River: ($64.50) 8 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $38, SB folds.

Final Pot: $64.50

Results in white below:
Hero has Kh As (two pair, tens and eights).
Outcome: Hero wins $64.50.

Reason i limp with AK is because i couldn't be bothered to play anymore, was just about to leave the table but felt i had to play it but then a kind situation developed. Soon as the guy calls my re-raise i know he's on a draw as checked the flop so no way he's gonna call with two T's and 8's there.

Why are you betting the river? Are you betting A high for value? Because I dont think you are folding out anything beating you. I prefer a check here really.

[Nade]

Originally Posted by robsterling

Why are you betting the river? Are you betting A high for value? Because I dont think you are folding out anything beating you. I prefer a check here really.

For 2 reasons:
I get a lot of hands that are beating me to fold i.e a J might call the turn but can't call the river, also pocket 9's can call the turn but not the river, even someone with Q9 will fold nearly always.

Secondly i want to maintain an image of when i raise i've got the goods and not raising lightly so checking down A high shows a sign of weakness that i am raising lightly and when i come up against a bit of resistance i'll check down. Another point is the opponents on the table think they know exactly where they are with me, oh look a re-raise on the 2nd T, and a bet out on the river so obviously had a FH, i know exactly how he plays don't have to worry about him etc..

I posted a hand in strategy the other day where i got a player to bluff with Q high into my top pair A showing how these subtleties of letting your opponent think they know where they are with you and taking advantage of it is a great weapon.

[robsterling]

Originally Posted by Nade

For 2 reasons:
I get a lot of hands that are beating me to fold i.e a J might call the turn but can't call the river, also pocket 9's can call the turn but not the river, even someone with Q9 will fold nearly always.

I dont think anyone plays Q9 like that, and any pair that calls the turn must call the river as I imagine an 8 is a tiny part of your range there.

Originally Posted by Nade

Secondly i want to maintain an image of when i raise i've got the goods and not raising lightly so checking down A high shows a sign of weakness that i am raising lightly and when i come up against a bit of resistance i'll check down. Another point is the opponents on the table think they know exactly where they are with me, oh look a re-raise on the 2nd T, and a bet out on the river so obviously had a FH, i know exactly how he plays don't have to worry about him etc..

I can understand this to an extent, but I thought you were leaving the table? And I also don't think it's inconceivable SB can have a 10 there and may c/r the river. I don't mind showing down A high there myself, people at 100nl don't tend to adjust their play much from my experience - I often switch from 22/18 to 34/30 ish and the way people play against me won't change much (if at all).

[Nade]

Originally Posted by robsterling

I dont think anyone plays Q9 like that, and any pair that calls the turn must call the river as I imagine an 8 is a tiny part of your range there.

I think it's a possibility Q9 would be played like this though very passive.

And i don't see any way in the world any pair on the turn would call on the river and if they do it's crazy on a double paired board with strong re-raise on the turn and strong bet on the river - The bet sizes represent a 10 perfectly IMO and that's key. I'm just confused by your logic there TBH

I can understand this to an extent, but I thought you were leaving the table? And I also don't think it's inconceivable SB can have a 10 there and may c/r the river. I don't mind showing down A high there myself, people at 100nl don't tend to adjust their play much from my experience - I often switch from 22/18 to 34/30 ish and the way people play against me won't change much (if at all).

I play against pretty much the same people day after day so we get very familiar with eachother.

IMO anyone with a T on the turn is re-raising no doubts, it was just standard to me that they didn't have it so it turned into an ample opportunity to take the pot with a realistic bet on the river. They folded instantly FWIW.

[robsterling]

Originally Posted by Nade

I think it's a possibility Q9 would be played like this though very passive.

And i don't see any way in the world any pair on the turn would call on the river and if they do it's crazy on a double paired board with strong re-raise on the turn and strong bet on the river - The bet sizes represent a 10 perfectly IMO and that's key. I'm just confused by your logic there TBH

Because the only pair that will call a raise on the turn is a J or higher, except an awfully played 99 perhaps. And you are not playing an 8 like this, so the river changes very little.

Your range is very polarized, 10 or bluff.

[Nade]

I don't see how you can feel they'd play a J like this but not Q9.

FWIW the way i saw the hand is they didn't have a J or would have bet the flop, they didn't have a T or would have re-raised the turn and very unlikely to have an 8 with raise and call on turn. They didn't reraise pre flop so can discount over pairs.

It looked like they were bluffing the turn so i represented the T instead, but when they were re-raised they felt they want to save some face and call then they quickly fold the river it definitely seems likely they had a 9, whether that's 99, Q9, K9 or A9 i'm not sure but they all fit the bill to me.

Have to say if someone is calling me in this spot on the river with a pair then i mark them a calling station noob, (or words to that effect) and will be able to take them to value town for the rest of time because i'm not LAG and represent a FH totally.