GaF's Nothing to Something thread (Current Bank €1007.85)

[GaF]

I'm not playing them through a lack of bankroll - it's more for the "challenge" - overall that remains a bigger motivator for me in Poker at the moment than the money.....

I dont tend to "grind" much/at all - my wins come through the occasional big ones......

[msaban]

Good Luck with it GAF

[Nade]

Great progress already

[GaF]

Originally Posted by MCFC66

I guess my situation is different as I do not have a lot of playing hours to go at during the week

I haven't put as long into it as it might appear - remember these are speed games and I play up to 3 at a time (open a new one every time blinds hit 50/100) - I'm probably playing not far off 8 games an hour.....

[robilaruk]

Originally Posted by Nade(BPP)

I'd like to know what you see as a 'normal' ROI in the long term?

at full tables at least 20%, probably closer to 25% at low levels - if you can't manage that then you are probably not ready to move up.

given my recent experience ( I know a pitiful sample size of nearly 40 games over a 2 day period ) I was placed ITM 50% of the time at the 5 handed turbo's and had a -tive ROI due to the majority of 2nd places I was getting.

I can't see how these can be profitable in the long run due to the 70/30 split, if they made it 65/35 that would have a +tive difference to the ROI and make them more attractive

Damo

[GaF]

Originally Posted by robilaruk

I can't see how these can be profitable in the long run due to the 70/30 split, if they made it 65/35 that would have a +tive difference to the ROI and make them more attractive

If you get your "fair share" of firsts and seconds, then 70/30 or 65/35 has no impact

If you are a good HU player, then 70/30 is better
If you are a bad HU player then 65/35 is better (and you're probably better off on full tables, whatever the split)

I imagine with your aggression, you're not a bad HU player?

[Nade]

Originally Posted by robilaruk

at full tables at least 20%, probably closer to 25% at low levels - if you can't manage that then you are probably not ready to move up.

given my recent experience ( I know a pitiful sample size of nearly 40 games over a 2 day period ) I was placed ITM 50% of the time at the 5 handed turbo's and had a -tive ROI due to the majority of 2nd places I was getting.

I can't see how these can be profitable in the long run due to the 70/30 split, if they made it 65/35 that would have a +tive difference to the ROI and make them more attractive

Damo

Ok thanks, i'm around a 'normal' level then as my pokeroffice stats show an 22% ROI in the $5 full normal speed SNG's with 42% ITM. I think Slapdash pointed out a while ago that the ROI can be seriously flawed as a reflection of results.

[robilaruk]

Originally Posted by GotaFancy?

If you get your "fair share" of firsts and seconds, then 70/30 or 65/35 has no impact

If you are a good HU player, then 70/30 is better
If you are a bad HU player then 65/35 is better (and you're probably better off on full tables, whatever the split)

I imagine with your aggression, you're not a bad HU player?

I would agree with you I feel I am a slightly better than average HU player at this level due to the amount of games I have played in the last 3 or 4 years - now this is going to sound pompus but it isn't.

I have a basic grasp of fold equity, I feel that others at this level don't, so with blinds at 200/400 and equal stacks of about 3K or so I would not call a shove on my BB with Q8 suited for instance, however others did when i shoved, so I end up being a 60/40 fav or so with my Ax Kx etc and lose - and I tried the tactic of a raise to 2BB as well and found i still got a call - so i figured I might as well shove and hope my 60/40 holds up, however it didn't on too many occasions I think i had 3 firsts out of the 20 approx ITM finishes i had - it was pitiful

I remember in two games hitting an ace on the river to go with my AA and having that ace make their straight on the board when they called PF with Q10 etc lol

I am going to shadow you at some point and watch you play to get some pointers (if thats ok?)

Cheers

Damo

[GaF]

Originally Posted by robilaruk

now this is going to sound pompus but it isn't.

I have a basic grasp of fold equity, I feel that others at this level don't,

Their weakness is your strength ..... assuming your game is flexible enough to take advantage of their flaws....

The further from optimally they play, the bigger your advantage over them ..... poeple cannot play so badly that they increase their chance against you (assuming your game can adjust...)

Originally Posted by robilaruk

I am going to shadow you at some point and watch you play to get some pointers (if thats ok?)

No problem Not sure how useful it will be for you though (i''l get you on MSN and share hole cards)

[GaF]

Originally Posted by Nade(BPP)

I think Slapdash pointed out a while ago that the ROI can be seriously flawed as a reflection of results.

That was specifically with regards to the way it is calculated in Sharkscope IIRC - in general ROI over a long enough time span is probably the best way of measuring results....

[staffy]

My bad results continue at the moment.

[staffy]

Originally Posted by staffy

My bad results continue at the moment.

My last 9 games at $20 level 6,4,4,9,7,9,5,6,10

[robilaruk]

to follow on re HU play - hyper aggression is not the key, what is the most important thing for me is your read on the player you are playing

• if they are loose raise only top 20% of hands and limp the next 10% and raise more than your normal as they are more likely to call (for me that would be 4BB raise)

• if they are fairly tight then raise top 40% and keep it standard (for me thats about 2.5 BB)

• if they are a rock then raise everything and probably only a couple of blinds at most (sometimes a min raise and a half is enough) as they are likely to fold most hands, so you keep you variance low with minimum risk to your stack and if they do call you know you need help!

the problem comes when the blinds to stack ratio is unfavourable because you end you shoving and calling with a wider range of hands as a 'normal 3BB raise' takes up 40% of our stack - thats when a grasp of fold equity comes into play and perhaps why i lost so many games. Its an obvious shove to me with K8 if I am first to act, but not an obvious call with Q6 if I am the BB to some one who has shoved. I found that players at this level did the opposite of what I would do in these situation and had me well kippered (so they played perfectly against my style )

Damo

[GaF]

By the time I am HU on these I seldom make any moves other than all in or fold.....

The most critical thing isn't your opponent IMO, it's stack size to blinds....If that is low enough, I'm all in with any 2 against any opponent....

[robilaruk]

Originally Posted by GotaFancy?

No problem Not sure how useful it will be for you though (i''l get you on MSN and share hole cards)

going through the gears - I play ultra tight from the off and wait and wait and wait - sometimes perhaps too long because I know that even if i shove my A8 on the button for my last 1K at 100/200 blinds the guy on the BB with 2000 is calling with his K10 coz its pretty...... (so i probably missed an opportunity the orbit before when i had 1300 chips to shove with J9 etc)

i think you go thru the gears well and this is something I need to tweak

Damo
ps I know its a ball ache but if you prefer why not send me a few HH's when you shoved with less than good cards but in the right position - thats what I need to work on

[robilaruk]

Originally Posted by GotaFancy?

By the time I am HU on these I seldom make any moves other than all in or fold.....

The most critical thing isn't your opponent IMO, it's stack size to blinds....If that is low enough, I'm all in with any 2 against any opponent....

having played them i agree, you are normally HU by 200/400 at least, so any raise is a fair proportion of your stack (3K)

I find that in a full game, with a few more chips you still get to HU at 150/300 200/400, but have maybe 6K to play with rather than 3K, so twice as many blinds leaves a bit more room to play

Damo

[GaF]

Originally Posted by robilaruk

I know its a ball ache but if you prefer why not send me a few HH's when you shoved with less than good cards but in the right position - thats what I need to work on

I will dig out a few hands (in a new thread) once I can get into Paradise (wont be long, I'm playing embarassingly poorly on Virgin - wont be around much longer - I think Sam's sledging got me ))

[robilaruk]

this is what I mean about FE - yes I am a shortie and yes the other shortie calls, but I would never make the call the SB did even with that stack - its another 370 to win 890 in a multi way pot

he is risking nearly a 1/5th of his stack with K2s

and thats the reason he called, they are soooooooted - I bet fecking womble doesn't realise he is only about 2% better with K2s than with K2 off

hahahahahahahaha

Damo

***** Hand 760614895 *****
25.00/50.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - 20 September 2007 21:16:33
5 Player $5 NL (Real /Tournament )
Seat 1: LEOWIN25 (480.00)
Seat 2: corrado54 (2355.00)
Seat 3: Kissgé (1855.00)
Seat 4: badboy35 (2390.00)
Seat 5: robilaruk (420.00)
badboy35 post SB 25.00
robilaruk post BB 50.00
** Deal **

robilaruk [Ad, 4h]
*** Bet Round 1 ***
LEOWIN25 Call 50.00
corrado54 Fold
Kissgé Fold
badboy35 Call 50.00
robilaruk All-in 420.00
LEOWIN25 Call 420.00
badboy35 Call 420.00
*** Flop(Board): *** : [Qs, 9c, As]
*** Bet Round 2 ***
badboy35 Check
LEOWIN25 Check
*** Turn(Board): *** : [Qs, 9c, As, 10d]
*** Bet Round 3 ***
badboy35 Check
LEOWIN25 Check
*** River(Board): *** : [Qs, 9c, As, 10d, Jd]
*** Bet Round 4 ***
badboy35 Bet 200.00
LEOWIN25 Fold
*** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.00 Total Pot: 1260.00
LEOWIN25 Fold Win: 0.00
corrado54 Fold Win: 0.00
Kissgé Fold Win: 0.00
badboy35 [Kd, 2d] Ace high straight Win: 1260.00

[GaF]

Originally Posted by robilaruk

he is risking nearly a 1/5th of his stack with K2s

and thats the reason he called, they are soooooooted - I bet fecking womble doesn't realise he is only about 2% better with K2s than with K2 off

I say again - their weakness is your strength ......you WANT them to be playing badly - then it's just a question of working out how you can best profit from it - the better they play, the harder it is to work out how to beat them....

[robilaruk]

Originally Posted by GotaFancy?

I say again - their weakness is your strength ......you WANT them to be playing badly - then it's just a question of working out how you can best profit from it - the better they play, the harder it is to work out how to beat them....

I agree entirley and I think I have - just play on the flop when i know how good my hand is rather than gamble PF.

though in the last game even though I had OESD 98 on 764r board the villian decided to call my CRAI for another 1400 with his AK just in case......



Damo