Pop Quiz (part XVIII) call or fold

[robilaruk]

its bubble time - whats my play?

as always the Boss HH posts your starting stack, so take 150 of me for the SB

call/shove - or fold? and reasons why please - this is a very tricky hand I think

Damo


150.00/300.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - 18 May 2007 21:09:16
Seat 1: Metal_King (5705.00)
Seat 2: LizziePL (585.00)
Seat 5: calsu (7530.00)
Seat 9: dieseltek (1180.00)
LizziePL post SB 150.00
calsu post BB 300.00
** Deal **
Metal_King [N/A, N/A]
LizziePL [Ac, 10s]
calsu [N/A, N/A]
dieseltek [N/A, N/A]
*** Bet Round 1 ***
dieseltek Call 300.00
Metal_King Fold

[GotaFancy?]

Easy all in for me - dieseltek is a player I want to be going up against, not the other two and ATs is more than good enough.....

[robilaruk]

cheers, maybe it is not as tricky as i thought! LOL

will be interesting to see what others think

Damo

Originally Posted by GotaFancy?

Easy all in for me - dieseltek is a player I want to be going up against, not the other two and ATs is more than good enough.....

[McG]

All my chips are in now - unlikely to get a better opportunity of tackling 3rd place. If he has a better hand, I'd have expected him to shove all in from early position, to guarantee getting at least the blinds.

However, I am ready for the horror story of him slow playing a big pair.

McG

[the mole]

yep all in for me too, you are so low its pick a hand time and AT is good enough. you might not get a better chance.

[Nade]

All-in! If you fold you're pretty much all in with the next hand anyway being on the BB meaning you either push now with a good hand or wait one hand to be pushed all in with most likely a rubbish hand. Not an ideal hand but there are a tonne worse imo. Push.

[GotaFancy?]

lol - Damo - Every time I refresh this page (3 times so far!!) your response in post 3 has changed!!!!!

[robilaruk]

LOL - i wont post any horror story - just interested to know what folks think about how this should be played (i'll post any bad beat in the appropriate thread )

cheers McG

Damo

Originally Posted by It's McG

All my chips are in now - unlikely to get a better opportunity of tackling 3rd place. If he has a better hand, I'd have expected him to shove all in from early position, to guarantee getting at least the blinds.

However, I am ready for the horror story of him slow playing a big pair.

McG

[robilaruk]

sorry, wanted to give a more meaningful answer

I was lazy 1st time - and gave too much away 2nd!

Damo

Originally Posted by GotaFancy?

lol - Damo - Every time I refresh this page (3 times so far!!) your response in post 3 has changed!!!!!

[robilaruk]

I am on the SB this hand - so button next - does that make a difference

Damo

Originally Posted by Nade

All-in! If you fold you're pretty much all in with the next hand anyway being on the BB meaning you either push now with a good hand or wait one hand to be pushed all in with most likely a rubbish hand. Not an ideal hand but there are a tonne worse imo. Push.

[aimar21]

I don't think you will be able to steal anymore with that stack , you can't get any better cards, so there is no point in folding to catch them later. all-in

[GotaFancy?]

Also - the call from diesel is unforgivable!!!!

[robilaruk]

steal?? I would agree with that - have barely a BB left - I don't think I am thinking about stealing anymore - just wondering if i should call here or not given the current situation and what has happened

cheers

Damo

Originally Posted by aimar21

I don't think you will be able to steal anymore with that stack , you can't get any better cards, so there is no point in folding to catch them later. all-in

[robilaruk]

hmmm, interesting don't you think??



Damo

Originally Posted by GotaFancy?

Also - the call from diesel is unforgivable!!!!

[Nade]

Originally Posted by robilaruk

I am on the SB this hand - so button next - does that make a difference

Damo

Ooops, school boy error! Playing poker atm so a little distracted!

So you're on the button next and have the possibility of a full round.. without losing any chips. When i put it like that then a fold sounds the best option however it's still unlikely you'd get a better hand then A10s and with your stack, one other caller still push.

[robilaruk]

thanks nade I think you are probably correct about my chances of getting a better hand - just wondering if my measily stack will get anyone to fold tho

Damo

Originally Posted by Nade

Ooops, school boy error! Playing poker atm so a little distracted!

So you're on the button next and have the possibility of a full round.. without losing any chips. When i put it like that then a fold sounds the best option however it's still unlikely you'd get a better hand then A10s and with your stack, one other caller still push.

[robilaruk]

thanks all for the responses

what I thought was interesting is that you all said 'easy call' given my stack and my hand, with comments made about I am not getting a better hand to play etc.

I agree I might not get a better hand but will I get a better position? it seems that no one has thought through what others might have and/or their postion in relation to me? (I apologise if I am wrong here) - for instance, how many realised that the massive stack is on the BB and is seeing the flop for free unless I shove?

so what happens if I fold?

the BB might shove and puts dieseltek AI if he calls
the BB might shove and get dieseltek to fold
the BB might check, hit or not hit a hand and beat diesel/get him to fold

either way I am not in any worse state than I am already in really as:

diesel is AI at some point, wins and doubles up
diesel is AI at some point and loses and I am ITM
diesel folds at some point and is on the BB next hand with only 480 left after posting the BB

what happens if I call?
the BB shoves, diesel calls and I fold, hoping the BB knocks him out
the BB shoves, diesel folds and I call - that is what I really want! to be HU against one player with A10
the BB checks and we see a flop - if I hit any part of it I am AI and
the BB checks and I hit a monster on the flop, I check and hope someone bets , in which case I am AI
I miss the flop and end up folding after the BB/Diesel makes a bet

There is only one scenario that really appeals and that is the BB shove PF, diesel folds and I call to play HU & I don't think that is the most likely thing to happen - plus if I call and miss then I am no threat to anyone at all with my measily 285 chip stack, and they all gang up on me to knock me out (like I am a threat anyway! )


So what happens if I shove?
I have 435 left after posting the SB, so after making up the BB I am shoving for 285.

The BB might fold!! if he does he is a muppet, with his stack he is calling ATC, in fact the correct play is to re-raise AI and get diesel to fold or create a side pot if diesel calls

The BB folds and Diesel folds excellent result for me

The BB re-shoves and diesel folds , so I am HU

The BB calls and diesel folds (womble if he does ) so I am HU

The BB folds and diesel calls so I am HU

The BB calls and diesel calls and I am up against 2

The BB calls, diesel shoves and the BB calls and I am up against 2 (again if the BB calls me and then folds to a reshove he is a womble! )

so there are more positives here than just calling, so calling IMHO is not the correct play, but I can't quite see me getting HU PF at all given my meagre stack, the BB is playing here no matter what and diesel is calling as well (unless the BB shoves after I do)

So on the face of it, I can't get either the BB or diesel to (realistically) fold by shoving, so I am playing A10 against 2 players, which is not what I want at all

and the other thing swaying my decision is that diesel only called..... (well spotted GaF ) he is short stacked and called UTG on the bubble! what does that smack of? either AA/KK and wanting calls for chips or somthing shite like 910s QJ 66-22 etc that he doesn't know how to play so he limps hoping to hit or get raised PF to call with I assume (I am assuming he will call, otherwise why limp with garbage?)

In the end, it seemed the best chance I had of getting ITM was to fold. Diesel could be knocked out by the BB or diesel might fold and then pay the BB/SB and be AI before me or the two big stacks tangle and the smaller one busts out etc

and you can blame Valiant23 for this! his post here has made a massive difference on how I approach STT's in this situation

Show Me The Money....

cheers Andy

Damo


ps feel free to pick holes in my logic! LOL