Poker Novice Questions

[GotaFancy?]

I was amazed by how loose the play was on th SO Cash table - it seems to me that a simple TAG player should win by playing "by the book" - nothing fancy, no bluffs - just play it as it is ........

[brael]

I'd have to admit that the term 'slow playing' still baffles me... is it taking a long time over making your move or flat calling with a decent hand?

Can anyone explain it for me?

Thanks in advance.

[GotaFancy?]

Originally Posted by brael

I'd have to admit that the term 'slow playing' still baffles me... is it taking a long time over making your move or flat calling with a decent hand?

Yeah, it's the second one - where you represent less strength than you actually hold ...... lets see if I can find a good definition somewhere......

[GotaFancy?]

Ok - got the following definitions:

To play a strong hand weakly so more players will stay in the pot.

Playing deceptively with a strong hand by checking and calling with the intention of raising once the pot is larger.

Playing non-aggressively with a powerful hand; calling and betting instead of raising. This in the hope of not driving players out of the hand and thus sucking more money into the pot. Also called "sandbagging".

[Valiant23]

The problem I think is that a freeroller will naturally slow play AA or KK, because we all know the 'all in arses' that you get at the start of a freeroll can spoil the game.

I find myself 'showing' if I feel the need to go all-in at the start of a free roll, but I'm not sure I'd do that at any other time.

I too thought until recently that 'slowplaying' was letting the timer run down. I think GaF? mentioned slowplay when I got knocked out in the Tele FFF, and I realised what the term meant.

Oops!

[laidbackbloke]

Originally Posted by Valiant23

I'm not sure if this is a whinge, or a request for advice, but at the moment I am getting really cheesed off with this bloody game.

Last Friday I felt that my game was finally coming together. I had a 4th and 1st in consecutive freerolls. I was consistently placing high in tourneys, even if not top 10, which I thought wasn't too bad, as I am very much in the learning process.

2 days later I slow play KK in the Telegraph Final, and raise at the wrong moment, and I'm out in 997th. Then in the dollar-up in SO I do pretty much the same thing. get good hole cards and don't play them properly.

Thing is whenever I'm aggressive with good cards I almost always end up getting a bad beat (imo), and at least taking a hit, or getting knocked out.

I've then decided to try bottom limit cash games at SO, to get my rake bonus, and to tighten up my game, and I manage to lose $10.

So I go back to freerolls to re-learn, but I feel as though I just don't know what to do any more. Is this just 'one of those things', or is it me? I know hand histories would be a help but I don't have them I'm afraid, besides I think what I need is general advice to help me refocus(?). I've even sat and watched you lot, and don't think my standard is too far behind the other 'novices'.

Thing is I don't feel as though I'm on tilt at the table.

Is it possible that the same things were happening, but I was too inexperienced to notice, but now that I 'know how to play' at a basic level I'm more aware?

Perhaps I need a break, but haven't played enough so that if I do take a break I'll be back at the beginning.

whinge whinge whinge....

I do apologise for you having to read this self indulgent sh't, but I've got to get this off my chest, and I may as well do it now, whilst I'm NOT playing poker.

I would have tried to reply to this last night, but i was playing 3 tables so it would have been a bit tricky

Every player who has been playing poker for any length of time will experience a bad patch. when i used to play 10 seat STT's i went from winning 7 out of 9 £5 STT's to not being able to even finish in the money for a 3 week period. It was frustrating but you get through it eventually. I'm going to copy and paste something i wrote on a previous threat as its apropriate:

Originally Posted by laidbackbloke

One general bit of advice however would be to Examine your play........... and be honest with yourself. If you lose a hand its easy to say its a bad beat or that you were unlucky, but think about whether or not there was a better way you could have played it. Should you have folded pre-flop? Put in a bigger raise pre-flop? or on the Turn? etc, etc, If there was a better move you could have made then learn from it and use the information to your advantage next time. If on the other hand you were ahead when the money went in and were just unfortunate, then................ well that's just poker, it happens. The annoying fact is that you can play a hand very well and still lose. On the other end of the spectrum Its also good to examine the hands you win as well. Was it good play? or were you just lucky? did you win because your opponent played even worse than you did or was it just a really well played hand? If you had played the hand differently could you have gained more chips? etc. etc. It's all experience and improves your game in the future. Generally speaking the person who makes the least mistakes wins.

If you are going through a bad patch your confidence can take a pounding so it is important not to let it affect how you play, as it can lead to poor decisions. There is no substitute for experience, so the more games you play, the better your judgement becomes, you won't get suckered as often (though it will hapen occasionally) Remember ..............good play will still win eventually

[brael]

What's the deciding factor when holding flush? I was holding 7d7h on the BB while playing a Sporting Odds cash table last night and the betting limped along at best. Once the river had been dealt I found myself holding a flush (diamonds) with Ad having been dealt on the flop. What I was concerned about was my opponent's cards both being diamonds or at least one being higher than my 7d.

Was I right to be concerned or, since the Ad was out, would the plot have been split had he held a higher ranked diamond?

As clear as mud!!

[staffy]

If he had a higher diamond then you would have lost. If your oponant was betting high i would have been concerned and would have folded i may have called a small bet but not raise.

[cains]

If your opponent had a Diamond higher than yours, he would be the winner..

[Jaded]

Flush goes in order of highest card, then second highest, then 3rd... etc.

So you were right, if he had a diamond of higher than 7 he'd have won it.

[brael]

Split pots... having watched quite a bit of the 888.com open this week, I'm getting the impression that a split pot happens when, for example, 2 players are holding something like K8 and the other K7. Flop, turn and river does nothing for either but so long as the river is less than a 7, the pot gets split? Feel free to correct me if this is BS!

HOWEVER... while playing an STT at Blue Square tonight they seemed to give the pot to the player with the bigger kicker.

Am I missing something or is there differing rules for this at different sites?

[GotaFancy?]

The rules are the same - it is only a split if the best 5 cards for each player are identical.

So If Player A has K7 whilst Player B has K8 and the community cards come down K3349 then it is a split pot, however if the community cards were K3345 then Player B wins with the 9 kicker(assuming no flushes)

[kevsul]

riight my question is i have only just realised that quite a few sites are connected, As regards the freerolls, So could some one let me know which are the ones that are connected which means i won't be able to log on at 2 sites at once .. I think betfair and holdem are related..thanks for help kev..

[GotaFancy?]

This should be most of our regulars - missing anyone?

BossMedia

Sporting Odds
Virgin
Canbet

Prima Network

Ladbrokes (uses Prima software, but not on Prima Network)
Royal Vegas
Bet365
NordicBet
BetHoldeEm
Gaming Club
Stan James

Party Network

PartyPoker

Cryptologic

Betfair
Interpoker
William Hill
Littlewoods
UK Betting

PokerRoom

Coral/Eurobet

Tribeca

Golden Palace
Blue Square
Victor Chandler

Tain

Parbet
Expekt
Eurolinx

[kevsul]

thanks GAF all the best kev

[leroyloverod]

After a lousy week full of bad beats i have decided to go back to the start and re-learn the game. I was regularly placing in every 2-3 stt's but would have the occasional bad night like everyone else.
On sunday i decided to give up the game for a bit as its costing too much. Some of the blame lies at the feet of people calling with poor odds, holding onto their ace and hitting it on the river etc. But most of the blame surely has to lie at my feet as i make my own decisions. I tend to move up to £10 stts when thigs go like this as they seem to be a bit more even as people tend not to call raises with less outs but it happened again there.
Again, I'm sure i was making the mistakes too but i kept going out in the early rounds to bad beats. If i can get towards the last 5 then i normally give myself a good chance as i rather like the strategy in playing the last 4 or 5 players on a table.
It just kind of kills your confidence when it keeps happening.
So i have now decided to start at the beginning where consider myself an experienced novice rather than an average player.

I am now only playing freerolls and £1 stts, speaking of which i have just won one on BF as i wrote this lament.

Any guides for an experienced novice?

[leroyloverod]

Sorry i forgot to post my main question. Does this seem like the right way to go about things?

[georgej]

Looks like a plan to me.

When dealing with badbeats, either over a few days, or weeks, the most important thingis to act - not react. Staying away from the $10 tables is the first step and a good one.

I found that playing a few MTT's helped, getting a slight lead, sitting out for 10/15 min then rejoining kept me thinking and more focussed on the basics of my own game as i would not be trying to read the other players so much.

This does not really help the bankroll, but does get you back on track. Playing for 2 hours solid in a MTT makes the STT's seem fairly tame after a while.

Just make sure you are not playing when tired and not chasing losses (or gutshot straights). Seems you are on the right road though. Sometimes a break is just as good to clear your head.

[leroyloverod]

Thanks for the advice. It already seems to be working. Tonight i have played 2 £1 stts and finished 1st and 2nd in both. It beats spending money.

With regard to the previous post, i also want to point out that i am aware that in some cases i should face up to the fact that i was beaten by better players in some games. I can handle that but i found on some occasions people were staying in against my raises with poor hands even pre flop. Examples being :

Holding onto low suited pocket cards

Hanging in with one ace and low kicker.

Any low pair (I would fold pre flop with 33 against a large raise - i think that is sensible)

middle hands like j 10 unsuited

I would consider that a risky call against a preflop raise.

Even post flop i was getting some poor calls, stright and flush chasers calling with one card playable at the flop, then hitting their cards on the turn and river. I'm not kidding it was very frustrating and i have shouted "NOOOOOOOOOOOO" into the darkness a few times.

Saying that though, I think there were a few mistakes made by myself.

1, Playing too many games

2, Not taking a break between games

3, Playing when mad at the previous bad beat and being too aggressive. (in one £5 game i had jj first hand raised 60 chips preflop, hit a jack, raised another 60 got called and a guy raised all in with jc, 6d 2c on flop he had 3+5 d in his pocket. Turn 9 d river you guessed it, 2d. how do you play that kind of betting?)

I tried changing my strategy from aggressive to tight and nothing seemed to work but determined, i ploughed on and kept getting to 6th place. In some games i was well beaten by guys slow playing good pocket cards. That i can take, but my morale was severely deflated by the time i turned the pc off.

Tonight has been good as i started to like playing again a little more.

Any advice would be much appreciated from you guys

[Danny Cash]

OK Leroy I'm glad you've not given up completely. Starting at £1 level is good but not neccessarily the best way forwards. Ok, so it's cheap and you don't feel that angry when you lose because you're not losing much. Plus you're up against people who are generally new or experimenting or not as clued up, so you're going to get strange outcomes and possibly even MORE bad beats than you are used to at £5 and £10 level.

Here are a couple of pointers, and I'm no expert but they seem to work for me.

Don't play every hand. Learn to fold the rags often.

Consider what your position is. You should only really call or raise when you are in late position once you've established what other players have by their raises and calls. If around 7 or 8 people call or raise before you it indicates you need an extremely good starting hand to beat all these players who are going to see the flop. If a lot of people are folding before you and you're only up against the blinds then you can think about calling and raising depending on your hand.

During the later stages of the game look at people after you who are struggling/short stack and likely to go all in. Can you risk calling the blinds knowing they may go all in soon? Is your hand worth calling their possible all in, or is it better to fold now?

Consider the number of outs you have once you've seen the flop. Is it really worth calling that raise to hit one card from the remaining deck?

Learn to fold your pocket pairs if there are over-cards on the flop. Classic example: you hold QQ, put in a raise and 2 people call. The flop shows a King and an Ace. Admit defeat here unless you are getting negative vibes i.e lots of checks. People will stay all the way to the river calling left right and centre only to have been beaten well before. FOLD THOSE QUEENS! It's hard but better for you in the long run!

Don't be afraid to put in small bets to find out where you are. In the above example put in a small bet if you are first to act, you can guarantee if you get a call you're up against someone holding an ace or king.

If you have a decent hand after the flop and are worried about someone else improving theirs, make them pay. Don't let them hit there flush or straight on the river. Be agressive and get that pot early. If people are beating you on the river, which is what you say, DON'T LET THEM GET TO SEE THE RIVER. This is very hard on £1 tables mind you, these players WILL call anything, so remember this.

There are probably more tips I can give you but it's late. There are much better players in this forum than me so I hope they can contribute.

Remember you can't be a world-beater overnight. I've been playing about 18months and it's only just clicked really in the last 3-4 months. Experience is everything, the more you play, the better you become and the quicker your brain will be able to calculate outs, when to be aggressive and when to fold.

Good luck mate,
DC