Omaha Hi/Lo any one play?

[glceud]

Have become just a bit bored with holdem so have decided to become the 2009 wsop omaha hi/lo champion instead.

Playing the $1/$/2 10 handed fl tables at stars and just requested my stats out of curiosity. Any one make anything out of these rather limited stats.
Omaha Hi/Lo (Real Money):

2000 hands played and saw flop:
- 104 times out of 225 while in small blind (46%)
- 190 times out of 223 while in big blind (85%)
- 409 times out of 1552 in other positions (26%)
- a total of 703 times out of 2000 (35%)

Pots won at showdown - 199 out of 285 (70%)
Pots won without showdown - 61


Also any one kow the value of pkt pairs in this format, I reckon bar Aces they are virtually useless. I might play if double suited, but I think flushes other than the nut flush are a big loser in this.

[ubermonkey1]

yep ,yep, yep and yep.

the only pocket pairs of any use are the low ones
only time i might play kk qq is with a2 or a3 and flush possabilitys or maybe with 2 other paint cards.
i dont mind playing all4 cards to a high because if its a high flop you will almost certainly hit a big part of it.


if you think about it there arent many hands that kk qq on their own will definately scoop with .like you say really you need to be looking at a nut flush so k high/q high is very dangerous.

low pairs can be good for a few reasons,they can not only give you a possible nut low but also help to cut down other possible nut lows,sometimes the diffrence between quartering and taking half a three way pot can be quite big.

also with a nice board you can hit a full house plus a nut low which is usually a great position to get 3/4 of a big pot.

so hands with 2 below a 5 and any pp 8 or below are very good hands

say you have a255

now pretty much any low flop is good for you apart from a2 but you get some excellent ones.

a dream flop here is 345 , anyone with a2 will have to call (and maybe even raise)any big bet you make .if the board then pairs you quarter them and they really cant lay it down and you are freerolling

a pocket pair is about a coinflip vs any 4 random cards so they really arent very strong.aces of course are very strong as they will be killing other people possible nut lows as well as giving you an ok high but you need at least 1 card under a 5 to go with really.

you have to be very carefull if you hit an ace on the flop and it kills your low.so many times ive seen people unable to lay down a set of aces when their low is busted and a straight is possible,either way your only going to get 50%of the pot and putting more in at that point is very dangerous.

of course limit is a bit different and you can afford to call down more marginal hands but if you try pl a lot of seemingly good hands can end in tears.

[ubermonkey1]

oh and the stats look about normal to me for limit.

you should be seeing a fair few flops especially from the blinds as it unlikely it will get raised much pre flop.

youve got a decent hands won ratio and sometime you get forced into calling down in limit so it looks like your not getting stuck to often.

the amount won without showdon actually seems quite high considering its limit, a lot are probably busted draws either high or low.

[glceud]

Cheers for that Ben, a million more questions to come

Interested in the low pair theory as I have been tending to bin them still not sure about bringing 88 -66 into the equation though.

Pkt Aces seem to be played like they are in holdem games by a lot of players no matter what the other 2 cards are. They cant be worth raising with on their own surely.

Stats dont show it but my preflop raising i almost non existant, I'll only raise in late position with multiple callers and a very strong staring hand.

Showing a profit so far but think that might be down to luck, or that there are some right numpties out there.

[ubermonkey1]

as a pair they are useless but combined in a low they really are worth it.
you get a lot of low/straight/possible fullhouse outs all in one go

another interesting theory is that if the board pairs low say

2 2 3 6 7 if you held say the dream 77 a4 you may get any number of players thinking they have a shot at this flop

any one with 23,26,27,45,33,66 or a4 maybe even a5 might struggle to fold to you unless they are a decent player.these are all the sort of hands that everyone will be playing ,so someone or maybe even multiple players might get dragged in ,so it becomes a nice big pot just about every time

maybe these sorts of hands will mean a bit less in limit but in pot limit these hands are invaluable.

the most important thing is always trying to play for the nuts at least one way or as close as possible.

another little tip is hands with 6s and 7s are strong with other low cards.

again this is because if the right flop comes you cant lose.

say you have a36x
and the board shows 245xx there is no way he can fold a3 to a pot sized bet.

also hands like a2 /67 78 89 910 are brilliant as well ,you can hit the nut hi and low on the flop and catch so many other people that will struggle to fold.

so when you get these sort of hands just keep betting.
a good player will try to keep a pot cheap but will probably still call you down with the nut low and an ok high, but a bad player will start reraising because they have the nuts one way and dont realise that you know your gonna get 3 quarters of their stack

[ubermonkey1]

Originally Posted by glceud

Cheers for that Ben, a million more questions to come

Interested in the low pair theory as I have been tending to bin them still not sure about bringing 88 -66 into the equation though.

Pkt Aces seem to be played like they are in holdem games by a lot of players no matter what the other 2 cards are. They cant be worth raising with on their own surely.

Stats dont show it but my preflop raising i almost non existant, I'll only raise in late position with multiple callers and a very strong staring hand.

Showing a profit so far but think that might be down to luck, or that there are some right numpties out there.

even 66-88 are ok with good backup, like i say 2cards 5 or below but preferably a2 a3. its more because you can hit the nuts or pretty much nuts each way on the flop.


yeah aa on its own is not worth getting excited about.it is worth a call in case you hit your ace on a paired board and by calling others will probably not expect the aabut not worth raising.

from late position i would be raising a fair few different hands but mainly rolling low straights , gapped low straights, aa plus a low or 4 cards 9 or above.
i very rarely raise from early-mid unless ive got a real monster hand ,even then i wont raise aa23 every time from early as position is absolutely key.your also giving the game away with what you hold to a certain extent so i would be carefull unless vs muppets.

a profits a good start mate there is a lot of easy money out there but the swings can be a bit sick sometimes,as with omaha there are a lot of hands that are pretty unfoldable even for very very good player and you
can sometimes hit a nasty run of these.

[glceud]

Cheers again
Just about convinced about the low pkt pairs with 2 other low cards though I still think I'd struggle to play 4-5-7-7 or 2-4-6-6 for exmple.

I take it a/2 is just about playable in limit with any 2 cards?

Think there might be major differences with post flop betting between limit and pot limit games. Some hands I just call in the hope of getting 4/5 callers rather than raising and possibly getting only one caller.

Had an $85 down turn so far but a fair bit of that was with aces full against quads when the two guys with the nut low and the guy with quads and I capped the betting on all streets.

love playing hi only hands in late position!

[ubermonkey1]

Originally Posted by glceud

Cheers again
Just about convinced about the low pkt pairs with 2 other low cards though I still think I'd struggle to play 4-5-7-7 or 2-4-6-6 for exmple.

I take it a/2 is just about playable in limit with any 2 cards?

Think there might be major differences with post flop betting between limit and pot limit games. Some hands I just call in the hope of getting 4/5 callers rather than raising and possibly getting only one caller.

Had an $85 down turn so far but a fair bit of that was with aces full against quads when the two guys with the nut low and the guy with quads and I capped the betting on all streets.

love playing hi only hands in late position!

4577 is on the limit and maybe best played carefully but 2466 isnt a bad hand at all.with a 35 flop you have a lot of straight outs(16) and any low card bar an eight or the board pairing will give you a straight plus a low ,any ace or 2 will most likely scoop the pot.

pl is a lot different from limit and controling the pot is key, i suppose
limit would work in a similar way tho.
with a nut low but no high i try to always keep the pot small unless i'm hu and the other guy looks weak, then i try to bet him off the pot(its hard to keep calling pot sized bets unless you pretty much have the nuts one way)
keeping the pot cheap in limit hopefully will get more callers ,so even if you quarter its not so bad.also it might let a3/23 hands stay in and add to the pot a little .if you start re- raising those hands will fold and your left playing all the hands that probably have you in trouble.

like you say getting a cheap look at the flop is always worthwhile multi way,even more so in pl.
i cant think of many hands that you would have terrible odds to call with multi way in limit and as long as you think you can outplay the opposition post flop then its worth a crack.
with pl you have a pre built pot and a lot of opposition to possibly also hit,so as long as the hand has some value it can be worth a shout(i might even play ks/qs in this situation in hope of hitting a nut house/quads).
i only do this in a weak game as in a strong game if there are a lot of flat callers you tend to get a pot sized bet from the button(hence my slightly larger range in late position)
its hard to call that sort of bet out of position as you can be sure a pot sized bet will come on the flop.

you do get all sorts of really sick beats and thats one of those things you have to deal with.a really good example happened to me the other day in the omaha game in the 32 red olympics.

i folded 99 pre flop after raises before me but nearly spat out my tea when the flop came a99. the two players in the pot check next card is a king .one player bets the other raises player 1 calls.
the river was an ace.both players start betting at each other and end up all in. one has kk the other has aa so quad aces, quad 9s and ks over aces all in the same hand.just glad i folded pre flop
ive also had 2 straight flushes beaten by bigger straight flushes as well
thats why all the omaha games can be really sick as it is easy to get caught by hands nobody could fold.

[glceud]

Note to self-

No matter how drunk I get this weekend I will not play four tables at a time.
If I cant do it sober what meakes me think I can do it drunk.