Kxo BB

[Tom Hedonist]

This happened to me twice yesterday, I can dig out the hand histories if anyone wishes.

I was in the BB and was dealt a King with an unsuited low card (the first occassion it was K5o) - the sort of hands that if I hadn't been in the BB I would have folded immediately. On both occassions there was quite a few limpers, but no body raised, so I checked. The flop brought another K and two rags. With such a low kicker I checked, expecting one of the many limpers to have a King with a better kicker.

Both times, the table checked all the way round, and the Turn brought another King. I bet and everyone folded. As nice as it was to win all those limp-calls, I was hoping to get feedback on this play.

I realise this situation isn't going to come about too often, but was I too passive? Should I have put in a small bet after the flop? The pot at this time was about $0.70, so I was thinking I should have bet about $0.40 to try and knock out a few of the limpers and probably fold to a reraise?

Any thoughts or suggestions gratefully received.

[Valiant23]

For me the issue isn't so much as whether you should have led out the betting but rather what would you have done had someone called or even played back at you?

Having a naked King that hits top pair is a small gift from the poker gods as long as you are content with looking at it as a way of making a small profit out of the blinds, which in itself is a rarity (imo).

I can get over-aggressive in BB and feel this is a leak I need to be constantly aware of, and as such I try to remember that paying the BB and SB is the tax I have to pay. IF I get a rebate when I have rubbish (as you have done) then I take it as a blessing.

Just my 2 cents, although its an excellent question.

[GotaFancy?]

I'm happy with the passive play - top pair, poor kicker against multiple opponents and out of position - I want to keep the pot small - so am check calling or check folding......

[slapdash]

Think you might be overestimating the chance of somebody else having a
king, though. If there were four other players staying for the flop, and if
they had random hands, then there's less than a one in three chance of any
of them having a king, and even if they do, their kicker may be smaller than
yours.

Of course, they don't have random hands, they have hands that they
decided to limp in with. Whether that increases or decreases the chance
of them having a king depends on the players, but I suspect that for most
players it decreases the chance (e.g., if they have a small pair or suited
ace, then they don't have a king).

[Dodger]

Had the same (or very similar) hand the other day, but my 2xBB raise at the end was raised about treble that and I folded . Winner didn't show cards but I was quite happy that I'd done the right thing.

[The Quiet Man]

Hi TH,

Even with the poor kicker, you need to find where you are - I'd have bet after the flop, probably half the pot. If anyone calls I'll assume they have the King and be ready to put it down if raised after the turn! (not when the turn's another King tho')

Big Blind is a nasty place as you get forced into playing crap hands that you'd be folding elsewhere.

This might be my first post in the strategy department - it's bloody scary to be amongst the clever folk!!!

TQM

[Tom Hedonist]

Thanks for all the answers folks. There's obviously two distinct camps, and I find myself agreeing with both of them

Perhaps in future, if its gone half past the hour I'll bet and if it hasn't I'll check

[robilaruk]

I bet the flop every day of the week if the flop is really uncoordinated and 30-40c at this level is fine by me

you have top pair on the flop, at microstakes levels folks limp any 2 cards coz its only 10c - so you must bet here, you are miles ahead of 4 out of the 5 limpers - don't let them catch up


Damo


[quote=Tom Hedonist;766943]This happened to me twice yesterday, I can dig out the hand histories if anyone wishes.

I was in the BB and was dealt a King with an unsuited low card (the first occassion it was K5o) -
Both times, the table

$0.40 to try and knock out a few of the limpers and probably fold to a reraise?

[AJ]

Even with the poor kicker, you need to find where you are - I'd have bet after the flop, probably half the pot. If anyone calls I'll assume they have the King and be ready to put it down if raised after the turn! (not when the turn's another King tho')

100% agree with this, you need to bet into a pot to find out where you are. You have top pair, ok your kicker is weak.

The passive play gives people free cards. Someone could be holding an Ace or a lower pocket pair, why give them a free card to beat your pair or make trips. Make people pay to see cards.

Nothing wrong with taking down a small pot, Slow Play = No Pay for me

[voiceofjoe]

With top Pair (and it being a King) - and as everyone had limped Preflop, I would put in a Pot Sized bet. Happy to take it down there and then , if someone raises then I'll probably fold -dependent on the player.

But if I get a caller then I'll take the free card also - and reassess the situation after the turn.

[Jimany]

Originally Posted by voiceofjoe

With top Pair (and it being a King) - and as everyone had limped Preflop, I would put in a Pot Sized bet. Happy to take it down there and then , if someone raises then I'll probably fold -dependent on the player.

But if I get a caller then I'll take the free card also - and reassess the situation after the turn.

Should you not put in a 1/3 - 2/3 pot bet instead in this situation to minimise losses on your side if the other player raises? Since the likelihood is you're going to fold if this is the case.

Remember unless the SB is the only one who calls you, you're out of position (in the BB) and the free card is of the opponent's option.

[pinkpanther]

You should check flop. There is little point betting as you are only likely to get called by a better hand and you cannot stand a raise. The pot is small so you dont have to protect it aggressively. Your only real scare card is an ace on the turn so you dont have to protect against overs as you would if you had a pair of 10s. When you make trip kings on the turn you should check again (unless there is obvious flush or straight draw) - hopefully one of the other players with a lower pair or a bluff will try and take the pot - further more you can be pretty confident you have the best hand as somebody with a king and good kicker would have bet the flop. If nobody bets the turn bet the river a small amount and try and get a caller - obviously you have to be aware of a straight or flush that may have materialised on the river. Trust me im a pro.

[voiceofjoe]

Originally Posted by Jimany

Should you not put in a 1/3 - 2/3 pot bet instead in this situation to minimise losses on your side if the other player raises? Since the likelihood is you're going to fold if this is the case.

Remember unless the SB is the only one who calls you, you're out of position (in the BB) and the free card is of the opponent's option.

I just find that at the low limits, if you put (for arguments sake) a 1/2 pot raise in then from early position, you get one of 2 things happen

A.The next player calls, a which means everyone else now has better odds to call, and you maybe thin the field by 1

or

B.The better players see it as weakness (which to a degree it is) and bang a big raise over the top anyway

Maybe at larger stakes it would be different - (I'll revisist the thread in 5 years when I get there !!)

[Jimany]

Originally Posted by voiceofjoe

I just find that at the low limits, if you put (for arguments sake) a 1/2 pot raise in then from early position, you get one of 2 things happen

A.The next player calls, a which means everyone else now has better odds to call, and you maybe thin the field by 1

or

B.The better players see it as weakness (which to a degree it is) and bang a big raise over the top anyway

Ahh understood, just saw it was in micro-limits, should pay more attention to these things. Fully agree in this case then

Maybe at larger stakes it would be different - (I'll revisist the thread in 5 years when I get there !!)

Why not have someone sticky it for you? That way it'll always be on your to-do list