How to play the big stack?

[JulioArca]

***** Hand 1096947014 *****
200.00/400.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - Monday, May 26, 2008 9:06:25 PM
PokerPlayer Freeroll (Real /Tournament )
Seat 1: hanger57 (2355.00)
Seat 2: GpdDelusio (9597.00)
Seat 3: AAHall (9077.00)
Seat 5: ANGRY LION (418.00)
Seat 6: stfc-nuts (7974.00)
Seat 8: JulioArca (2760.00)
Seat 9: Sebby_t86 (2427.00)
Seat 10: beanolizz1 (10884.00)
JulioArca post SB 200.00
Sebby_t86 post BB 400.00
** Deal **
hanger57 [N/A, N/A]
GpdDelusio [N/A, N/A]
AAHall [N/A, N/A]
ANGRY LION [N/A, N/A]
stfc-nuts [N/A, N/A]
JulioArca [Jh, Js]
Sebby_t86 [N/A, N/A]
beanolizz1 [N/A, N/A]
*** Bet Round 1 ***
beanolizz1 Fold
hanger57 Fold
GpdDelusio Fold
AAHall All-in 9077.00
ANGRY LION Fold
stfc-nuts Fold
JulioArca All-in 2760.00
Sebby_t86 Fold
*** Flop(Board): *** : [5s, 7c, Qs]
*** Turn(Board): *** : [5s, 7c, Qs, 6d]
*** River(Board): *** : [5s, 7c, Qs, 6d, 5d]
*** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.00 Total Pot: 6320.00
hanger57 Fold Win: 0.00
GpdDelusio Fold Win: 0.00
AAHall [4s, 3d] Straight to the seven Win: 6320.00
ANGRY LION Fold Win: 0.00
stfc-nuts Fold Win: 0.00
JulioArca [Jh, Js] Two pair jacks and fives Win: 0.00
Sebby_t86 Fold Win: 0.00
beanolizz1 Fold Win: 0.00


Am I being too critical by posting this beat?
Is AAHall playing on a higher level to me because I wouldn't have made this play in a million years.

Knocked out in position 157, with 20 positions paid.

[GotaFancy?]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

We do have a thread specially for bad beats

[SteveO]

I don't think AA hall was too interested in this event saw him make a similar mover with a7 or a9, bit like me with KJ and AQ earlier but buckled down later on and went on to win a seat.

[AvonGirl]

Originally Posted by GotaFancy?

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

We do have a thread specially for bad beats

Posted in strategy so I don't take this as a bad beat thread. I think the question is in the thread title.

With the all-in in front of me, I think I should be folding JJ, even though it's likely to be a steal.

That didn't stop me calling in a similar situation with my AQ around the same time as this and going out to QQ though, so what do I know.

[JulioArca]

Originally Posted by GotaFancy?

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

We do have a thread specially for bad beats

Thanks AG, sorry GaF if you think it should have been posted as a bad beat. However it was more of a question of should I be playing 34o in the same manner as this when I am in a similar position.
(I honestly thought I made a good call whether he had 34o or AA, blinds and antes meant I barely had three rounds left).

[GotaFancy?]

I'm almost never folding JJ with 7xBB and a shove from a large stack. He would not make such a large shove there with AA, KK or QQ which are the only 3 hands you are behind to.

I dont think anyone (even AA Hall) would try and defend an early position shove with 25xBB with 34o as sound poker strategy.

[SteveO]

Insta Call Julio very unlikely he has aa or kk very probable he has ak so you've just got to gamble.

[Nade]

For arguments sakes:

Should you play big stack like that? No. Guy with 450chips directly behind so 34o is a dog against anything he'll call with plus other potential callers. Best to accumulate chips more subtly than this.

Call with JJ? [Insert definition of standard]

[betking1]

Lost me a long time again

[happyhornet]

I think the move was more symptomatic of the style of tournament than the type of player.
These large freerolls (especially those that only pay out 10/20 places out of several hundred entries) are treated by many as 'double up or die', playing in a fashion that they possibly would not do in a normal game that paid out the top 10%.

[slapdash]

Originally Posted by GotaFancy?

I dont think anyone (even AA Hall) would try and defend an early position shove with 25xBB with 34o as sound poker strategy.

Well, all the players yet to act had under 20 BB and all but one under 7 BB, so it's not really shoving with 25 BB. But I still wouldn't defend it!

As Nade says, the really short stack should make it unlikely that the steal will work. If he calls, he is risking 450 chips to win 1050 if everybody else folds (which is quite likely): I think he should be calling here more than half the time, even if he doesn't think AA Hall is likely to be so ... imaginative.

[GotaFancy?]

If you knew that the short stack would be the only player to call, then it would probably be correct (Just) to shove with 34o You're getting about 7-4? If you have fold equity against shorty, (and can somehow know that all other players will fold all other hands) then the decision becomes more correct than "just".....

[slapdash]

Originally Posted by GotaFancy?

If you knew that the short stack would be the only player to call, then it would probably be correct (Just) to shove with 34o You're getting about 7-4? If you have fold equity against shorty, (and can somehow know that all other players will fold all other hands) then the decision becomes more correct than "just".....

Better than 7-4, isn't it? You'd be risking 450 to win 1050. Suppose shorty would call with a top 50% hand. Then you have about a 1 in 3 chance to win if he calls. So if you can guarantee that everybody else will fold, you gain on average

50% x 600 + 16.7% x 1050 - 33.3% x 450,

which is about 325 chips. But this assumes everybody else will fold, which they won't always do. Compared to the situation when the short stack isn't there, you win only about half the blinds on average when nobody but the short stack calls, but with about the same downside when somebody else does call. So it's a significantly worse position to steal than if you don't have the short stack there.