How important are your cards?

[Jaded]

Won't elaborate yet as I want to hear other's opinions... where do they rank compared to position/level of blinds/size of stacks/reads on players/etc?

[staffy]

I will often play the player and position before I consider what cards I have.

Difficult one to answer overall as lots of different things are taken into consideration.

Depends on time of tourny/blinds/stack/players/cash or ring. And thats just for starters.

[WASP]

as Brunson once said 'give me position and I'll win every hand blind'

The more that improving players learn this about poker the better they will become

Nice thread JJ

[msaban]

Jaded, I'm playing in your style on Pokerstars currently and I'm flying, there may be something to this

[jeffers]

In cash games, I play very little (sometimes none at all ) attention to my cards

[GotaFancy?]

In a tourney, it depends on the stage you are at ..... the higher the blinds the less important the cards.......

[voiceofjoe]

Originally Posted by GotaFancy?

In a tourney, it depends on the stage you are at ..... the higher the blinds the less important the cards.......

So are you saying if the blinds are small you only play premium hands ??

- if the blinds are small i'll play most hands if i can see a cheap flop - and i'm in position (i.e late)

- yet if the blinds are high then i'll not be raising (very often) with junk - but i wouldn't be afraid to raise in earl(ier) position with a strong hand ??

- Am I doing something wrong ??

[Valiant23]

Originally Posted by MCFC66

as Brunson once said 'give me position and I'll win every hand blind'

The more that improving players learn this about poker the better they will become

Nice thread JJ

Unless your 10 3 os gets called by 10 9*....


Sorry but in this day and age this is bollox. The chances are most people don't think about position. They think about pot odds.

*This was the ONLY move I made last night and I had similar stack to MCFC at the time. I could have folded these carp cards and waited, waited waited, but I had done that all night. I'm not bitter at all as MCFC can testify I was laughing when the BB said he was calling.


Tell Dolly he can have position and I'll have AA.

I fancy my chances.

[mrmuzeman]

Of course there are many factors going into poker but your actual cards are the most important at the end of the day. I think anyone saying otherwise is just trying to sound cool. Of course saying the cards are the most important thing doesnt mean you have to hold AA to win. But how do you win big pots which is the aim of the game, you have to have the best hand in a showdown is how, you need the best hand.

Thing is its not what hand you have isnt independent of itself. The same hand can be a fold or an all in depending on just a little difference in play and these things are position, stacks etc etc. I think knowing what cards to play in relation with yours and other position is the most key.

[Pocket Lady]

Originally Posted by mrmuzeman

Of course there are many factors going into poker but your actual cards are the most important at the end of the day. I think anyone saying otherwise is just trying to sound cool. Of course saying the cards are the most important thing doesnt mean you have to hold AA to win. But how do you win big pots which is the aim of the game, you have to have the best hand in a showdown is how, you need the best hand.

But surely sometimes it doesn't matter what cards you hold when you play the players - you don't get to see either the flop/turn or river and take the pot anyway,therefore not having a showdown?

[georgej]

I play the cards as i'm useless at playing players.

It doesn't matter what cards you hold if there isn't a showdown, but if there is - you've got your arse kicked. Once people see you playing weak hands as though they were strong, it's more common for them to call you imo.

[mrmuzeman]

Definitely pocket lady. Its why its a bit of a redundant question in a lot of ways. Nothing is independent of itself. Your hand, your position, others position, bets and their sizes etc etc etc, its all like one big thing that you have to do all the time. But if im made to pick just one thing to concentrate on over anything else (which wouldnt be a good thing to do!) then im picking the actual cards itself.

[AJ]

I suppose if differs in cash games vs tournements.

At a cash table with 9 players, if I'm on the button and it's flat called to me, I'm raising 4x atc. In a tourney, I'd think about it more.

Depends on your read of the players I guess, some tables with people who call regardless, the cards do mater, because people don't know how to fold.

[Masterplan]

whether i play the cards or the players depends on 3 things.
1. my state of mind:
if i'm not in serious concentration mode i dont even think about it.

2. my table image:
if i've built up a loose image, i'll bet out more on suspicious flush/straight drops
if i've built up a tight image, i'll re-raise more preflop and raise mroe on rivers

3. reads:
i wont try and play any player i dont have a read on.

[WASP]

Originally Posted by Valiant23

this is bollox

Thank you for your considered response but if you really believe that mate you have problems. Maybe in some sort of context it may be bollox but I dont think brunson plays freerolls or $1 challenges. If an improving player wants to get to higher stakes cash games or to the end of big tourneys this is paramount.

Originally Posted by Valiant23

This was the ONLY move I made last night and I had similar stack to MCFC at the time. I could have folded these crap cards and waited, waited waited, but I had done that all night

Your move wasn't a positional move you were stealing SB against BB you are out of position there mate You also picked on a loose player with a large stack. And if that was your 'only' move that night again you have something missing. As you know and as I posted in the other thread I had FA in cards all night highest PP was 9's and for 7 hours of play thats pretty crook. I get slightly miffed when people post that they just didn't get the cards (when they mean starting hands) you have to remember that Hold em is played with 7 cards not 2 and with position you need to be exploiting that fact. I made moves in position all night regardless of my hole cards it has to be done just to keep your stack going.

Just before you came to the table I had the button with two rags, blinds were at $2K and I had $15K left, I have 3 limpers to me, I put in a min raise to $4k we lose SB BB and one of the limpers. Flop comes down I get no piece two of them check then one puts in a minimum bet , back to me I shove, they all fold, I pick up $15K and double up. That to me is sweet positional play, not even contemplating what cards you have, just using your position and information you have around you. Obviously it will fall flat on its face sometimes but not as often as these so called great starting hands do. I know this has been said before but try playing a $10 or $20 STT with a post-it over your hole cards and see how you get on. It is tricky to start with but it will improve your postional play and your observation skills

Originally Posted by Valiant23

I'm not bitter at all as MCFC can testify

Originally Posted by Valiant23

Tell Dolly he can have position and I'll have AA.

I fancy my chances.

How many bracelets have you got? (dont answer that one Sam )

Don't get me started on AA been said before but I would rather have J 10 or 10 9 sooooted any day of the week in position over AA. But this is my preference the way I look at AA is 'how can this hand improve it is just a pair' and is a pair could enough to win this pot when the player in position has just put a pot sized bet in??

Jaded's way is very interesting but I suspect he doesn't care what his hole cards are and if you look at his starting cards he will always play hands that have a chance of improving and in position.

[mrmuzeman]

Don't get me started on AA been said before but I would rather have J 10 or 10 9 sooooted any day of the week in position over AA.

I see what your saying but I think id rather have AA I dont know if you play cash games or not but if you do and youre any good then the hand youll win by far the most money with in the long run is AA. Thats your hand.

I like J10s and 109s as well though but I like any pocket pair better.

[ubermonkey1]

one of the things nobody has mentioned about the hole cards you play is the image you are trying to give off to other players

this is very important in all forms of game no matter if its a tourney /cash or stt, the cards you are showing people should be giving them ideas of your strategy or at least what you would like them to think is your strategy

i dont mind losing a few chips to look like a bit of a nutter to catch a big pot later on , equally i dont mind just playing high quality hands for a while to look like a ultra solid player to snatch blinds later on.

so the cards are very important but without a strategy to back it up they wont win you much .
otherwise statistically everybody would all end up evens as over time the run of cards should even up ,but we know that is wrong because some players do better than others.

[^Newbie^]

hmmm , just tried out the position strategy in the betway freeroll . Still in it and seems to do ok . Hopefully i can see some success soon .


Mind you , i had a few showdowns already as was short . To me , looks like position is very important no matter the other players know or not .

[^Newbie^]

just to add on , i've been living on shit cards for the whole tourney so far . Purely playing on position , i'm still short stacked but still in the tourney which is a surprise really .

[^Newbie^]

just finished 325th out of 3000 plus entrants . Didn't even have AK , AQ , pkt pairs for whole tourney . i can conclude that position play is important .