Did I play this well or like a moron??

[GeordieGaz]

I was playing in the $3k gtd on virgin and played this hand...

3,000 GUARANTEED (Real /Tournament )
Seat 1: razza_BG (1815.00)
Seat 2: chisca (2588.00)
Seat 3: Pupillese (1420.00)
Seat 4: brezhon (1990.00)
Seat 5: kobylka0 (2214.00)
Seat 6: FAB1976 (870.00)
Seat 7: GeordiGaz (3356.00)
Seat 9: navigatore (4860.00)
Seat 10: 88Rock88 (2305.00)
navigatore post SB 15.00
88Rock88 post BB 30.00
** Deal **
razza_BG [N/A, N/A]
chisca [N/A, N/A]
Pupillese [N/A, N/A]
brezhon [N/A, N/A]
kobylka0 [N/A, N/A]
FAB1976 [N/A, N/A]
GeordiGaz [9s, 8s]
navigatore [N/A, N/A]
88Rock88 [N/A, N/A]
*** Bet Round 1 ***
razza_BG Fold
chisca Call 30.00
Pupillese Fold
brezhon Call 30.00
kobylka0 Call 30.00
FAB1976 Fold
GeordiGaz Raise to 120.00
navigatore Call 120.00
88Rock88 Fold
chisca Call 120.00
brezhon Call 120.00
kobylka0 Call 120.00
*** Flop(Board): *** : [6h, 7s, 5c]
*** Bet Round 2 ***
navigatore Check
chisca Bet 200.00
brezhon Call 200.00
kobylka0 Call 200.00
GeordiGaz Raise to 700.00
navigatore Fold
chisca Call 700.00
brezhon Call 700.00
kobylka0 Call 700.00
*** Turn(Board): *** : [6h, 7s, 5c, 6s]
*** Bet Round 3 ***
chisca Bet 300.00
brezhon Fold
kobylka0 Fold
GeordiGaz All-in 2536.00
chisca All-in 1768.00
*** River(Board): *** : [6h, 7s, 5c, 6s, Qh]
*** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.00 Total Pot: 6966.00
razza_BG Fold Win: 0.00
chisca [4c, 6c] Three of a kind, sixes Win: 0.00
Pupillese Fold Win: 0.00
brezhon Fold Win: 0.00
kobylka0 Fold Win: 0.00
FAB1976 Fold Win: 0.00
GeordiGaz [9s, 8s] Straight to the nine Win: 6966.00
navigatore Fold Win: 0.00


I was then called a moron on the chat but the player did not give me a reason for this..... what do we think? Would other people have played it differently?

[AJ]

The raise with 4 x BB with 89s is a bit strange, I assume it was a bluff to try and take down the pot at that point ? You can't have been expecting 4 callers. Although what the fcuk he's doing calling your raise with 4 6s is beyond me.

Once you hit the flop, you play it perfectly and get paid.

9 times out of 10, you miss that flop and have to walk away, so I guess it was a bit of a donk raise. i'd guess you were behind miles preflop. however your all deep stacked, blinds are low, you can afford to be a bit speculative.

[Nade]

Relates back to the point in the hansen book thread where someone quotes that he doesn't know whether playing loose or tight is best in MTT. What's key though is being able to make the right plays post flop with any hand and you played it perfectly fine here.

The only moron is the guy with 6,4 ...

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

Pretty sure they are talking about the size of the preflop raise, bit strange after 3 limpers to then raise 4*BB. Look at the hand from a different perspective, you completely miss the flop and fold: then what was the point of that raise? After that the hand pretty much played itself, possibly raise more on the flop but i guess at that point its more about luring as many chips into the pot as possible. Im sure a lot of players would flat-call the flop but then when the scare card comes have a harder decision.

So here are the reasons why you could be called a moron;

- Wierd raise size preflop, which guarentees a big pot (in terms of people and chips)
- Raising with a 'pretty shit' hand when you are clearly gonna get callers.

I would probably just flat call tbh (although i dont really play tournys). If you are going to raise then raise a meaningful amount and if you arent confortable with popping it to 250-300 with 89s then fold or flat call.

The above is based on me reading the hand history right... you were on the button right?

[GeordieGaz]

i would never normally raise with that pre flop... however it was a very loose table and I was expecting a few callers tbh!

I love the hand 89s and always seem to get nice flops with it! I was thinking if I can hit the flop I'll be able to get paid off quite easily!

If I don't hit the flop then I'm still in control of the pot and can make a continuation bet!

Anyways I was very pleased with the flop, then the turn came and I had him on the 6 so knew I was more than likely gona get called!

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

hmmm one thing, by my reckoning (again i might be reading wrong here) he is raising to 120 into a pot of 135 there, so how can we not be expecting loads of people to call?

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

Originally Posted by Nade

The only moron is the guy with 6,4 ...

yeah im loving his turn bet lol, is that supposed to be some sort of turn value bet because he thinks our guy is on an overpair and wants him firstly not to fold and secondly to shove, i really cant work it out

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

Originally Posted by GeordiGaz

i would never normally raise with that pre flop... however it was a very loose table and I was expecting a few callers tbh!

then....

If I don't hit the flop then I'm still in control of the pot and can make a continuation bet!

just for the sake of a discussion what kind of flops would you be comfortable continuation betting on when you miss against 2,3,4 opponents? Id be expecting at least a caller on the flop and then what to do i do on the turn?

[morlspin]

donk

played it perfectly once you hit the flop but raising pre-flop with that? its a sign of your impatience!

[GeordieGaz]

Originally Posted by whycantistayawayfromdogs

hmmm one thing, by my reckoning (again i might be reading wrong here) he is raising to 120 into a pot of 135 there, so how can we not be expecting loads of people to call?

it is very early in the tourney and if 1 or 2 ppl call then the others may think that they are getting good pot odds?!

As I've already sed.. the tbl was VERY loose so I thought I'd try and capitalise on this!

[JackJarvis]

I don't think you done much wrong mate. The raise preflop is questionable but we all like the old suited connectors.

Played it perfectly afterwards and got your reward.

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

Originally Posted by GeordiGaz

it is very early in the tourney and if 1 or 2 ppl call then the others may think that they are getting good pot odds?!

As I've already sed.. the tbl was VERY loose so I thought I'd try and capitalise on this!

how exactly are you capitalising? Obviously you won the pot but put that aside, i reckon you miss the flop completely most of the time and fold.

[GeordieGaz]

Originally Posted by whycantistayawayfromdogs

then....



just for the sake of a discussion what kind of flops would you be comfortable continuation betting on when you miss against 2,3,4 opponents? Id be expecting at least a caller on the flop and then what to do i do on the turn?

I'm not really bothered what kind of flop... if an ace comes I'll represent a strong ace... if rags come i'll represent an overpair! If I have a caller then I'll take that as weakness and fire another big bet on turn... if i have a raiser I'll fold!

Thats what I'd normally do! It's worked for me before and sumtimes it has back fired!

[GeordieGaz]

Originally Posted by morlspin

donk

played it perfectly once you hit the flop but raising pre-flop with that? its a sign of your impatience!

it was 15mins into the tourney!!
For your info mr morlspin... I have worked on my patience and I am now a much more patient player!!

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

Originally Posted by GeordiGaz

I'm not really bothered what kind of flop... if an ace comes I'll represent a strong ace... if rags come i'll represent an overpair! If I have a caller then I'll take that as weakness and fire another big bet on turn... if i have a raiser I'll fold!

Thats what I'd normally do! It's worked for me before and sumtimes it has back fired!

See im stuck in cash-mode here but a cont bet gets more and more dangerous the more people in the pot. If I am raising with 89s and get 4 callers I probably aint gonna be cont betting the flop, but maybe im stuck in cashmode.

Following your scenario though, you bet the flop and get called, you bet the turn and get called, what do you do on the river? I suppose give up or shove? Then youve lost a lot of chips with absolutely nothing, these are situations im trying to get out my game.

Im not trying to get at you btw, just like talking about poker and no one opinion is ever completely right.

[GeordieGaz]

Originally Posted by whycantistayawayfromdogs

how exactly are you capitalising? Obviously you won the pot but put that aside, i reckon you miss the flop completely most of the time and fold.

you may well be right, but if I don't hit the flop.. make a continuation bet.... take down the pot then surely I'm capitalising because of my pre flop raise?

[GeordieGaz]

Originally Posted by whycantistayawayfromdogs

See im stuck in cash-mode here but a cont bet gets more and more dangerous the more people in the pot. If I am raising with 89s and get 4 callers I probably aint gonna be cont betting the flop, but maybe im stuck in cashmode.

Following your scenario though, you bet the flop and get called, you bet the turn and get called, what do you do on the river? I suppose give up or shove? Then youve lost a lot of chips with absolutely nothing, these are situations im trying to get out my game.

Im not trying to get at you btw, just like talking about poker and no one opinion is ever completely right.

I do not play cash and maybe this hand is an example of why I don't play cash!!

If you look at it from another point of view.... I could win the hand with nothing and take a lot of chips from that!

I value ur opinion very much... that's why i put the thread up to maybe try and improve my game!

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

Originally Posted by GeordiGaz

you may well be right, but if I don't hit the flop.. make a continuation bet.... take down the pot then surely I'm capitalising because of my pre flop raise?

then we get back to my original point, what is the point of the raise? is 89s a hand to be trying to capitalise on 'loose players' with or are you simply sinking to their level. The size of the initial raise is to small to have any point other than build the pot. I dont think im getting the point across well enough, I just cant see why you are raising here (especially not the amount that you did).

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

Originally Posted by GeordiGaz

I value ur opinion very much

theres your first mistake

[GeordieGaz]

Originally Posted by whycantistayawayfromdogs

then we get back to my original point, what is the point of the raise? is 89s a hand to be trying to capitalise on 'loose players' with or are you simply sinking to their level. The size of the initial raise is to small to have any point other than build the pot. I dont think im getting the point across well enough, I just cant see why you are raising here (especially not the amount that you did).

I think I sed earlier that I like 89s and the flops seem to be nice to me when I have this hand! Maybe I raised cos I felt I was gona hit the flop with the hand or maybe I was just confident that I could outplay the players left in!