Correct move ?

Advice and thoughts please on a hand from last night.....

Virgin festival game, have passed the cash bubble stage and after 1 more goes out we are all guranteed a seat at the next DTD festival. I am guaranteed 47euro's at this stage but obviously wanted the seat more.

This is a weak part of my game and my views are that i was down to 4 x BB and at this stage it is either push/fold time for most of the table. I had been playing fairly tight as had the guy I called in this hand, I put him on a mid range pp so knew I would be in a race anyway.

Right or wrong play at this stage ?


***** Hand 1076434419 *****
1000.00/2000.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - 11 May 2008 22:12:17
Festival Weekly (Real /Tournament )
Seat 1: Loopy50 (11716.00)
Seat 2: g0stface1 (10013.00)
Seat 3: siwka31 (17865.00)
Seat 4: rivrdu (18131.00)
Seat 5: DrOwl (10719.00)
Seat 6: PLgazza (8543.00)
Seat 8: morlspin (27127.00)
Seat 9: JulioArca (10017.00)
Seat 10: grahams007 (13069.00)
PLgazza post SB 1000.00
morlspin post BB 2000.00
** Deal **
Loopy50 [N/A, N/A]
g0stface1 [N/A, N/A]
siwka31 [N/A, N/A]
rivrdu [N/A, N/A]
DrOwl [N/A, N/A]
PLgazza [Qs, As]
morlspin [N/A, N/A]
JulioArca [N/A, N/A]
grahams007 [N/A, N/A]
*** Bet Round 1 ***
JulioArca Fold
grahams007 Fold
Loopy50 Fold
g0stface1 All-in 10013.00
siwka31 Fold
rivrdu Fold
DrOwl Fold
PLgazza All-in 8543.00
morlspin Fold
*** Flop(Board): *** : [Kd, 6d, Jh]
*** Turn(Board): *** : [Kd, 6d, Jh, 4d]
*** River(Board): *** : [Kd, 6d, Jh, 4d, Js]
*** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.00 Total Pot: 20886.00
Loopy50 Fold Win: 0.00
g0stface1 [9h, 9d] Two pair jacks and nines Win: 20886.00
siwka31 Fold Win: 0.00
rivrdu Fold Win: 0.00
DrOwl Fold Win: 0.00
PLgazza [Qs, As] Pair of jacks Win: 0.00
morlspin Fold Win: 0.00
JulioArca Fold Win: 0.00
grahams007 Fold Win: 0.00

[GotaFancy?]

Gut feel, it's a pretty easy fold - you've just paid the blinds - you have a circuit ahead of you (by the time the blinds get back to you you will no longer be the short stack) - you dont want to be calling to race at this stage - if you race, you're 50% to get eliminated there and then - if you fold, there are enough short stacks, you have to be about 80% to get a seat minimum

At this stage, "the gap" is massive - you want to be getting your money in first.... you dont want to be calling, even with relatively big hands - again, especially if he's been tight....

[daftpegasus]

Have to agree with Gaf.

Because of the prize structure, you're not playing to win this tournament - you're simply playing to survive one more person going out.

Although it's a tough lay down I'd be folding and waiting for others to take the risk to call a move like this.

[JulioArca]

From a personal point of view you did absolutely the right thing

Looking at it objectively I think I would agree with GaF, but I sure was glad when I saw you both go all-in. Its still only Ace High and you dont want to be calling with it for your tournament life. Better to get your chips in first.
I seem to remember Morls was on his uppers with K3 in the BB. more or less pot committed and folded. This allowed me to double him up on the next hand when he "pushed" with his last few chips and AA. He then went up to 20k and safety very quickly. Lucky so and so

I will be rooting for you on Sunday

[Fonzie14]

With hindsight (wonderfull thing) and having read Gaf's comments, I can see that laying it down is the right option.

BUT, in the heat of the moment, with an M of less than 3, I think I would of probably called as well. With only 20 seconds to make this kind of decision, it is always going to be difficult. If you had flopped an A or Q or made your flush, it would of been a great call (and this thread probably wouldn't exist ) - unfortunately for you - not to be .

Anyway, good luck next week.

[GotaFancy?]

Originally Posted by Fonzie14

If you had flopped an A or Q or made your flush, it would of been a great call (and this thread probably wouldn't exist )

I think that's an important point and something we all fail on - if we only ever discuss hands we lose, then it's just dressed up bad beats We should be discussing any interesting situations - win or lose.

Remember, in poker, you can do the right thing and lose and you can do the wrong thing and win ...... don't be "results oriented" - one of the worst things you can do in poker (IMO)

I'm interested in a response from Gazza on this thread - if you were in the same situation again, would you do the same thing or something different? Have we persuaded you, or have you a different perspective on this?

[happyhornet]

We've had a number of these 50/50 impulse calls on this Forum that with hindsight we should have folded and yet in the heat of the moment, called.

I'm with Fonzie, it probably should be a fold, but with only a couple of BB's left and a premium hand I would probably also have called.

[slapdash]

These satellite situations where you just need one more person to be knocked out are really extreme. You should almost never be calling for all your chips ... and you should be hoping that the other players realize that when you raise all-in. I'm pretty sure it would be right to fold even KK here, and it wouldn't surprise me that much if it were right to fold AA.

By the way, were there antes at this stage? That would make it a little more attractive to call, but I still think it's a clear fold.

Originally Posted by GotaFancy?

I'm interested in a response from Gazza on this thread - if you were in the same situation again, would you do the same thing or something different? Have we persuaded you, or have you a different perspective on this?

I think reading this then,yes I should have folded and waited and having got over the dissapointment of not qualifying then yes,deffo fold.

In reality - I would probably fold again in exactly the same postion but also may well push if there had not been a raise before. As I said it's one of the weak parts of my game, getting away from pretty hands and being in that postion taking the blinds and "almost" being safe to qualify with a number of other people with much shorter stacks than me and being put in the postion that I was yesterday.

It also probably explains why I dont often cash big when others do


Does that make sense ?

[WASP]

Instafold - regardless of what cards you have you should never be calling in these situations (even more so with just AQ) you should rely more on on picking the right BB and getting some 'first in vigourish'