Cash Players Toolkit

[PAULM03]

About time I started playing again, haven't played for aaaaages mainly because I find I just can't commit the time.

Anyways going to play some cash, mainly because I can dip in and out rather than committing hours on end of my nights to MTTs.

So where do I start?

What books would be recommended for starting to play cash?

What sites?

What about the software for anlaysing your play or tracking other players, is that useful?

Decided to just forget everything I thought I knew about poker (didn't take long )and approach this as a total noob, so any advice is welcome

[Nade]

Just be prepared for when you're playing against a yank, a german, a swiss, a brit and a china man - how will you concentrate on the poker when there's so many political issues to be resolved!



Start at the low levels, and decide whether you want to play 6max or full ring (9/10 person) so you can concentrate on one particular style.

[WASP]

Did you play cash before Paul?

If not then I'd tread carefully.

If you did then fire in at what level you feel is comfortable for your bankroll some say 50 buy ins some say 20 , so if you have $2000 then .50/1.00 my be a little high so see how you go at .25/.50 etc etc.

Books dunno I hear Harrington has a cash book out but cash has more layers than a Man City onion and I do not think books are a good learning tool. Whereas forums and group discussion and experience is.

Sites is a difficult one as players like the mole live on boss other prefer stars and hate boss bla bla bla. I prefer ipoker for cash no particular reason but that I make more money there, so I guess it is trial and error.

PT3 or Holdem manager are essential for tracking your play and others and table selection tools from spadeit make finding the table and the player you want to play much easier.

Good luck

[WASP]

PS

Please can you move this to chat (otherwise I have broken my rule of never posting in strat again)

[PAULM03]

Originally Posted by WASP

Did you play cash before Paul?

If not then I'd tread carefully.

If you did then fire in at what level you feel is comfortable for your bankroll some say 50 buy ins some say 20 , so if you have $2000 then .50/1.00 my be a little high so see how you go at .25/.50 etc etc.

Books dunno I hear Harrington has a cash book out but cash has more layers than a Man City onion and I do not think books are a good learning tool. Whereas forums and group discussion and experience is.

Sites is a difficult one as players like the mole live on boss other prefer stars and hate boss bla bla bla. I prefer ipoker for cash no particular reason but that I make more money there, so I guess it is trial and error.

PT3 or Holdem manager are essential for tracking your play and others and table selection tools from spadeit make finding the table and the player you want to play much easier.

Good luck

$2k bankroll?

I must admit I don't have £1k knocking about to start with a bankroll that size. Is that really how much I'll need?

Hmm... need to give this some more thought. Really don't want to play tourney, it's too much of a grind and too time consuming to win decent money. Once you're in the tourney you're in. That's your night over.

[WASP]

Originally Posted by PAULM03

$2k bankroll?

I must admit I don't have £1k knocking about to start with a bankroll that size. Is that really how much I'll need?

Hmm... need to give this some more thought. Really don't want to play tourney, it's too much of a grind and too time consuming to win decent money. Once you're in the tourney you're in. That's your night over.

If you're a novice to cash I wouldn't start with less than 40 buy ins, so whatever money you have work out what level you need to start at.

I think $10 games are the lowest 5c/10c so you would need $400 to kick off.

[PAULM03]

Originally Posted by WASP

If you're a novice to cash I wouldn't start with less than 40 buy ins, so whatever money you have work out what level you need to start at.

I think $10 games are the lowest 5c/10c so you would need $400 to kick off.

That's more like it

So a buy in is 100bb?

[WASP]

Originally Posted by PAULM03

So a buy in is 100bb?

Your maths is spot on Paul, you are ready to play

[PAULM03]

Originally Posted by WASP

Your maths is spot on Paul, you are ready to play

Not sure about that, me Bayesian inference is a bit rusty

[GotaFancy?]

Suggest you get yourself on deucescracked for at least a week - you can get a weeks trial free (you have to sign up with your credit card, but cancel within 7 days and they wont charge it)

[PAULM03]

Originally Posted by GotaFancy?

Suggest you get yourself on deucescracked for at least a week - you can get a weeks trial free (you have to sign up with your credit card, but cancel within 7 days and they wont charge it)

Cheers. Can you sign up for the weeks trial and save all their content to your HD?

[GotaFancy?]

I'd say sign up to Poker Player mag too - do it through the apat web site and it will cost you a fiver for 12 issues - you'll get your fiver back in value and more just through the freerolls if you get to play on any of them.

I think Inside Poker mag would be worth it too - but you cannot find it for a fiver quite so easily and it may cost you a tenner for a 12 issue sub.

Flush magazine is sorted by Swampster - have to confess I havent seen an issue since he took over so cannot comment on the quality (it used to be more of a "lads mag" than a poker mag).

Although the magazines wont go particularly deep into topics, they will give a top level overview of most of the subjects to think about.

A lot of the articles are available on the pokerplayer/insidepoker website too (they share a site) http://www.insidepokermag.co.uk/poker/strategy/archive/

[GotaFancy?]

Originally Posted by PAULM03

Cheers. Can you sign up for the weeks trial and save all their content to your HD?

I'm only on my weeks trial at the moment, but yes it seems to - there appears to be no protection - they even offer you a download link Of course doing it that way will mean you dont get the new material and you wont benefit from the community discussion aspect....

[PAULM03]

Originally Posted by GotaFancy?

I'm only on my weeks trial at the moment, but yes it seems to - there appears to be no protection - they even offer you a download link Of course doing it that way will mean you dont get the new material and you wont benefit from the community discussion aspect....

Cool.

Forum is free though isn't it?

[GotaFancy?]

Originally Posted by PAULM03

Cool.

Forum is free though isn't it?

Not sure - could well be

With regards site to play - things to consider:
- Will you be datamining (running the PC for 24 hours a day collecting hand histories automatically from as many tables as possible)? If you are not, then I would say, stay away from sites that allow datamining - you'll be at a disadvantage if others do it and you dont! With your mathematical/scientific background, having databases to work with may be a good approach and something you can leverage if you get into it
- Ensure you use a room where you get a good rakeback deal. 30% rakeback is about the norm these days and your rakeback will in all probability be worth as much as any profits you make!

[PAULM03]

Cheers GaF. some good info here. I was going to dive in and play a few games straight off, get a feel for it again. Think I'm going to hold off for a week or so though, watch some videos, read a bit, get an idea of how I want to play.

I've got a couple more questions.

How do I find out which sites have good rakeback deals?

Similarly, how do I find out which sites allow datamining etc.?

And on the subject of datamining, I probably could leave my PC going 24/7. What kind of things can you do with the data, what software is out there to do it?

[GotaFancy?]

Rakeback - most sites offer rakeback You can get rakeback through the PL links on Pokerkings and PokerTrillion. For others you'd need to go through a rakeback site. Some sites will put you on rakeback if you ask - like Full Tilt - if you email them will say they're thinking about introducing rakeback and will let you know when they make a decision then a few weeks later they'll email you and offer you a rakeback deal.

Datamining - best way of finding out is through the forums on the Pokertracker or on 2plus2 (or ask here for specific sites ). Pokerstars do not allow datamining (beyond 30 hands). Full Tilt have traditionally allowed datamining, but it is uncertain now - they've changed their T&C but not said anything about it - however they still facilitate data mining by sending you all the data. Microgaming I believe allow datamining (though I havent tried recently). Ipoker - not sure - but WASP plays there - hopefully he can help . Boss dont produce hand histories for observed hands.

The main software at the moment for dealing with data is PokerTracker3 and HoldemManager (PokerOffice is the other, but has fallen behind in the race at the moment). PT3 has more than its fair share of problems at the moment, but is an established team and have pretty good customer support - the basic structure of PT3 is, IMO pretty good for when they sort the problems out. HEM is ahead at the moment, but new on the scene and is run by a "one man band" - as a result the support is worse and the community is less developed - I feel it will drop behind PT3 over time.

You will need software too to open and close tables - you can get some basic software free - AutoHotKeys will run it and the scripts are open source ... it's not the most reliable though - SpadeEye (or equivalent for other networks) at $45 is probably worth the investment, if only for the smoother datamining - but it's main function is as a table selection tool (PT3 will have this, but they're charging a monthly rate - and I'm not sure will offer anything extra - SpadeEye makes a lot more sense)

[PAULM03]

Cheers

Just signed up to deucescracked and off to watch the baby steps videos

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

if you are signing up to DC i would honestly just keep the subscription going, there are a couple of cracking series right now... The coaching tree and professor plotkin (gets very mathsy about hand ranges etc) are the best two series right now for low stakes holdem. plus Watch the Ghost videos by balugawhale and MDM13 and you will pretty much be ready to play anything up to .10/.25 profitably imo.

Get holdem manager and perhaps buy hand histories because datamining can be a pain in the ass...its nice to know that someone 3bets 13% of the time from the button and not have sample size issues to worry about (basically get a big database somehow).

[spannerjago]

I think rakeback makes a huge difference to your profitability and would go as far as saying it is essential.

I play on Prima (Purple Lounge) and get a 45% rakeback. The months where you don't do so well can suddenly look a bit brighter when you factor in the rakeback.

If you don't use the PL links for rakeback I can point you in the direction of the site I use. They also have exclusive tournaments for their rakeback customers and rake race league tables etc so there are more benefits than just the money.