Calling all ins with small pairs

[glceud]

OK, I cant remember the thread but a while back Wasp told me "I had a lot to learn" when I said I wouldnt call an all in for my tourney life with pocket 6's.

Two hands by PL chappies over the last week suggests I am the only one who doesnt know this fundamental play.

If some one raises all in with 10 bb and its folded round to you in the cut of with pkt 6's you are supposed to call with you 11bb stack. Right?

If some one raises all in in the bb into a raised pot with multiple callers during level one you are supposed to call with pkt 7's with 3 players still to act. Right?

In both cases neither of the callers are in a critical position in relation to the tourney average stack.

I dont understand these plays but if some one has an explanation please let me know.

Brian promised to tell me the answer in Vegas but either I was too drunk to remember or he was too drunk to make sense.

[Blatch]

Originally Posted by glceud

OK, I cant remember the thread but a while back Wasp told me "I had a lot to learn" when I said I wouldnt call an all in for my tourney life with pocket 6's.

Two hands by PL chappies over the last week suggests I am the only one who doesnt know this fundamental play.

If some one raises all in with 10 bb and its folded round to you in the cut of with pkt 6's you are supposed to call with you 11bb stack. Right?

If some one raises all in in the bb into a raised pot with multiple callers during level one you are supposed to call with pkt 7's with 3 players still to act. Right?

In both cases neither of the callers are in a critical position in relation to the tourney average stack.

I dont understand these plays but if some one has an explanation please let me know.

Brian promised to tell me the answer in Vegas but either I was too drunk to remember or he was too drunk to make sense.

Personally i dont think you can definatly answer either question here.

1st one = Whether you have 11bb or 9bb is rather irrelevant as its your virtual tourney life. Personally I fold here. I think its invalueable to be first in there. However other factors to look at before decdiding on calling with 66 are: -

Any idiots at table?
Much agreesion i.e. will you see many flops very cheap?
Any huge stacks using their stacks?
How far off the money are you?
Has the raiser been in a lot of pots?

All of above + more effects my decision.

2nd one = NO WAY!!!!!!!!!! Please tell me your joking?? Ok it may be a squeeze but this squeeze play is still quite new to the game. The original raiser may have a monster, a lot depends if he has acted or not. I very much doubt if 77 if ever good here. Insta fold for me. (unless im playing george, then I call)

[george2loose]

This is all very situational and not to be boring you can't really answer those questions without more info re stack sizes, hand ranges etc.

I think one general learning from any poker situation is that you can't say you would "never" do something in a poker situation. I've called off with plenty worse than 66!!!

[whycantistayawayfromdogs]

The first one kinda depends on what the guy has been doing at the table i suppose; im a tourny donk and i would probably ship it cos id be busy dreaming about all those broadways he can have.

Tournament structure is pretty important in the second example. If its a superturbo rebuy with 10 second blinds then its a yes, ifs the WSOPME then no, anywhere in between is up for debate

[ubermonkey1]

yeah i would and probably have called but mostly i would be folding,definately push with it but calling for an almost certain race at best seems like a bad idea in general.

[GaF]

I view calling the all in with 22 here - 20081114 - Cooler Analysis - Hand 34 - as a pretty obvious play (with the benefit of hindsight and some number crunching) - even though I folded at the time, it seems like it was an error.

Would you be calling with 22 in that situation?

[AJ]

As always it depends, where you are in the tourney, what the pay out structure is etc etc.

But in the first instance, there are plenty of times when the call with 66 is good, look at the range of cards he could push with, I'm betting it's pretty vast

[WASP]

Originally Posted by glceud

OK, I cant remember the thread but a while back Wasp told me "I had a lot to learn" when I said I wouldnt call an all in for my tourney life with pocket 6's.

Two hands by PL chappies over the last week suggests I am the only one who doesnt know this fundamental play.

If some one raises all in with 10 bb and its folded round to you in the cut of with pkt 6's you are supposed to call with you 11bb stack. Right?

If some one raises all in in the bb into a raised pot with multiple callers during level one you are supposed to call with pkt 7's with 3 players still to act. Right?

In both cases neither of the callers are in a critical position in relation to the tourney average stack.

I dont understand these plays but if some one has an explanation please let me know.

Brian promised to tell me the answer in Vegas but either I was too drunk to remember or he was too drunk to make sense.

I genuinely haven't got a clue what you are on about?? Was this a particular scenario with me or was it another thread? you'll need to refresh me.

BTW in Vegas we were on a wristband there was no time to discuss strat

[ubermonkey1]

Originally Posted by AJ

As always it depends, where you are in the tourney, what the pay out structure is etc etc.

But in the first instance, there are plenty of times when the call with 66 is good, look at the range of cards he could push with, I'm betting it's pretty vast

i bet none of them are lower than a 2 tho

[SteveO]

I see a lot of Pler's calling for over 10bb's with small pairs. I personally hate calling but with AK I'm always calling as you may be slightly further behind but worried about far less hands. I'm an AK donk aint I GeordieGaz. Only just noticed the second situation you described, as Blatch said it's obviously a joke.

[glceud]

Thanks for the input guys.
You might just have increased my calling range.

[Blatch]

Increased? I think the general concensus here is to decrease it lol

[george2loose]

I think it depends on the situation

[SteveO]

Definitely George and also if there are antes in play.

[george2loose]

very true- antes make a massive difference re hand ranges

[ubermonkey1]

definately,antes make a huge difference not only to pot size but also the likelyhood someone's stealing with less,6s suddenly look a lot better in that position.

[george2loose]

Thing is I agree with Neil- if I have 10bb's I'd rather shove with trash then call all in

[Blatch]

Originally Posted by george2loose

Thing is I agree with Neil- if I have 10bb's I'd rather shove with trash then call all in

Im gonna frame that and put it on my wall

[glceud]

Originally Posted by Blatch

Increased? I think the general concensus here is to decrease it lol

I did say increase my calling range, everyone knows I only call with aces and kings so I'm going to give queens a go for a couple of weeks and take it from there

My shoving range has always been infinate but my callng range has always been based on mine and the villians stack sizes. Calling with lots of chips is easy. Calling with a short stack is often unavoidable.

The question is really what do you need to call for your tourney against some one who has just pushed out of position for theirs. I still think 7's and below you are praying for a race, however the posibility of a race being more likely than an over pair plus the blinds/antes factor the 6/5 or so odds are starting to look more appealing.