To call or not to call...

[Nade]

Not sure whether this should be in strategy or not but thought not as showing the whole hand ...

Table #7732170 - Port Douglas
Starting Hand #390679208
Last Hand #390677868
Game Type: HOLD'EM
Limit Type: NO LIMIT
Table Type: RING
Money Type: REAL MONEY
Blinds are now $0.50/$1
Button is at seat 2
Seat 1: 27Nade - $194.27
Seat 2: onepunch - $97
Seat 3: whatawhata - $107.44
Seat 4: lasstar - $53.25
Seat 5: SMOKEYJOE666 - $14.66
Seat 6: Bea1860 - $145.95
Moving Button to seat 3
lasstar posts small blind ($0.50)
SMOKEYJOE666 posts big blind ($1)
Shuffling Deck
Dealing Cards
Dealing [As Qc] to 27Nade

Bea1860 calls $1
27Nade raises to $4
onepunch calls $4
whatawhata folds
lasstar folds
SMOKEYJOE666 folds
Bea1860 folds

Dealing Flop [Tc Qd Qs]

27Nade bets $5
onepunch calls $5

Dealing Turn [Td]

27Nade checks
onepunch bets $14
27Nade calls $14

Dealing River [Ks]

27Nade bets $15
onepunch raises to $74 (all-in)

whatawhata laughs out loud.
27Nade: wow
27Nade: QK?
lasstar is thinking.
27Nade folds
Taking Rake of $3 from pot 1
onepunch doesn't show
onepunch wins $75.50
whatawhata cheers.
Seat 1: 27Nade - $156.27
Seat 2: onepunch - $134.50
Seat 3: whatawhata - $107.44
Seat 4: lasstar - $52.75
Seat 5: SMOKEYJOE666 - $13.66
Seat 6: Bea1860 - $144.95
End Of Hand #390679208


Right, seems like an odd post maybe ... But i'm just wondering whether it's +EV to call this everytime no matter the opponent?

To piece this together my thoughts through the hand are:

Flop - Bet out to disguise the trips as i always cont. bet.
- He calls - could have a few hands but he's a very tight, solid player who doesn't get into tricky situations so i think he's caught a piece of it.

Turn - I check to represent a missed hand and get the bet like im expecting but don't re-raise as looking to value bet a river, but expecting a chopped pot. He floated me on the turn, which went through my mind so i was waiting to see what his reaction was on the river.

River - Standard bet from me but he goes AI and my only conclusion is KQ.

He's a very solid player as i say so i can safely put him on one of 3 hands - AQ, KQ, TT. Don't think he would call with QJ and would re-raise with KK/AA. So thinking about this as the time ran down i hated it but had to fold ...

It all just fits KQ perfectly ... the call pre flop, the call on the flop to disguise his hand he thinks, then the bet out on the turn which could look like a bit of a bluff as near a pot bet then the AI on the river clinches it for me. This player wouldn't go AI with just a Q as they're smart - They know i'm only going to call with a Q thus splitting the pot ... So they haven't just gone in with a Q but some sick mofo of a monster hand ....

I think ... .... Do others think i'm mad then for folding ?

(He never talks so got no confirmation of his hand)

[AJ]

Firstly, it's defo right for strategy so I've moved it.

Secondly, of course it's a plus EV call, you're behind to only one hand.

Most likely he's holding T x or Q x (other than king), in the first case your full house beats his, in the second you chop.

The number of times he'll push with the first case, outwieghs the rare times you'll lose the pot.

[SteveO]

I think he had u beat with QK but you have to call.

[Nade]

I'm 100% he didn't have 10x, this player just wouldn't do that he's very tight and by the book.

I'm 99% his range was QK, TT, QA, plus maybe QJ. These hands are the only ones that make sense with that player and how the hand played out. I don't beat any of them. Can chop with 2, the other 2 i lose so it's a 50/50. The question then is it +EV for a 50/50 chance?

[AJ]

I disagree, I'm sure he's on a 10.

Is it out of the question that he'd call with A 10s preflop ?

You check on the turn, he's made a full house and bets to take down the pot, he's surprise by your call.

He thinks your bluffing here

Here's an alternative solution, He's holding A J and he's just made his straight

[happyhornet]

I would call all day, every day.

However, if he did have KQ, your lay down is simply brilliant.

[GotaFancy?]

Originally Posted by AJ

I disagree, I'm sure he's on a 10.

Is it out of the question that he'd call with A 10s preflop ?

You check on the turn, he's made a full house and bets to take down the pot, he's surprise by your call.

He thinks your bluffing here

Here's an alternative solution, He's holding A J and he's just made his straight

I cant agree - he didn't have a sole Ten - if you have a ten, you cannot raise all in - you're not going to get a better hand to fold, and you wont get a worse hand to call - he either has Qx, TT, KK or a complete bluff

He probably didnt have KK with no pre flop reraise.
If he's doing it with AJ, it's basically a bluff,but a very dangerous one....

I think Qx is by far the most likely - could be QK, but could by other Q too....

[JulioArca]

Dont think I could lay it down, if he had you beat then respect!
One of those that may have been easier in live play, but online its a call.

[SteveO]

Just been on the blower to one punch and he told me he had AJ and said that Nade is so Uber tight he would fold every hand except KQ 1010 QQ or KK.

[Nade]

The 10x looks a possibility with the way played on flop and turn but definitely not the river so i discount it tbh.

Gaf you know full well it couldn't be any 'other Q too'.

Tight, solid, good player is calling with QJ minimum.

Still certain i made the right play in that circumstance. Against nearly all players i call ... watching the player i think is just as important as watching the cards and this player hadn't gone AI before from a few hrs play, was playing v by the book, solid stuff.

[Nade]

Originally Posted by Steve'O

Just been on the blower to one punch and he told me he had AJ and said that Nade is so Uber tight he would fold every hand except KQ 1010 QQ or KK.

Lol wtf ...

Thing is i'm really not uber tight, you can't be 6handed.

I shown my thought process through the hand as to how i came to a decision - It's not just a case of having a good or bad hand. I look to weigh everything up now and try to make the right plays.
Ok the fold may look weird and uber tight but i don't think many can disagree with my thought process and subsequent conclusion on their range of hands which makes the decision more intriguing.

[SteveO]

Do you ever use the check call in this situation if you're not 100% sure you have the best hand.

[Nade]

Originally Posted by Steve'O

Do you ever use the check call in this situation if you're not 100% sure you have the best hand.

I do use check call.

Reason i put out a $15 here on the river is as i think i'm ahead and sometimes someone with A high will call, someone with a 10 will call $15, if they have a Q i expect a min re-raise or call. The all in really shocked me.

[SteveO]

I use the check call a hell of a lot of the time but that's in omaha. The reason being 50% of the time the board pairs on or by the river and unless you have the nuts it's suicdal not to choose this play a large % of the time.