bad luck or bad play

[staffy]

** Game ID 1049728156 starting - 2006-11-23 13:43:05
** Esko Aho [Hold em] (0.25|0.50 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money
- Hepa01 sitting in seat 1 with $10.15
- al_bandy sitting in seat 2 with $49.85
- LarsB sitting in seat 3 with $46.00
- WolvesFI sitting in seat 4 with $6.13
- svejjo sitting in seat 5 with $49.20
- catmusashi sitting in seat 6 with $51.05
- oboy80 sitting in seat 7 with $28.65
- AceJay sitting in seat 8 with $26.12
- staffydogman sitting in seat 9 with $41.60
- RealFael sitting in seat 10 with $29.20 [Dealer]
Hepa01 posted the small blind - $0.25
al_bandy posted the big blind - $0.50
** Dealing card to staffydogman: 2 of Spades, King of Spades
LarsB folded
WolvesFI folded
svejjo called - $0.50
catmusashi folded
oboy80 folded
AceJay folded
staffydogman raised - $2.00
RealFael folded
Hepa01 folded
al_bandy folded
svejjo called - $2.00
** Dealing the flop: Queen of Diamonds, Jack of Spades, Ace of Spades
svejjo checked
staffydogman bet - $4.55
svejjo raised - $9.10
staffydogman went all-in - $35.05
svejjo called - $39.60
** Dealing the turn: 4 of Spades
** Dealing the river: Jack of Clubs
staffydogman shows: 2 of Spades, King of Spades
svejjo shows: Ace of Diamonds, Jack of Hearts
svejjo wins $80.95 from the main pot
End of game 1049728156

[^Newbie^]

I would have done the same if i were you . Fantastic pot odds for a flush draw . You hit your flush , he was lucky at the river . Simple as that i feel .

Unlucky m8 .

But raising with 2k suited ? Something i don't like doing though . You're in late position . I rather limp in though .

[staffy]

Dont forget the straight draw. 14 outs in total. Should I have shoved before the turn or just called.

[mrmuzeman]

You dont want to be raising with these kinds of hands in a full ring cash game at all. Your rarely going to win any sort of decent pot with hands such as this. You can limp in if you really want but its not a hand thats gona be any better than a break even proposition in the long run really, may as well just fold.

But anyway after the flop. CB is fine when checked too. When you get MIN checkraised its pretty obvious thats hes flopped a big hand like 2 pair so just call I would. If I dont hit the turn and he bets I fold unless its a really awful small bet in which case id call again.

Its 12 outs btw so I dont see the point in trying to get all the money in or anything.

[staffy]

I dont see the problem with my initial raise TBH. My aim is to steal the blinds. Is that such a bad play in position?

[mrmuzeman]

Never been bothered about stealing blinds in cash games myself, obviously in tournaments its different. You rarely get a fold anyway in low stakes cash games when theres a raise preflop. If you were on a really tight table and you can see this working then I guess thats fair enough but I dont see it happening so much in low stakes cash games, you get called 9 times out of 10 when you raise preflop anyway.

After the flop, you played it spot on if you had held 109spades cos then you have loooads of outs.

[staffy]

Originally Posted by mrmuzeman

Never been bothered about stealing blinds in cash games myself, obviously in tournaments its different. You rarely get a fold anyway in low stakes cash games when theres a raise preflop. If you were on a really tight table and you can see this working then I guess thats fair enough but I dont see it happening so much in low stakes cash games, you get called 9 times out of 10 when you raise preflop anyway.

After the flop, you played it spot on if you had held 109spades cos then you have loooads of outs.

At the moment I tend to win small pots and lose big pots. I get outdrawn an aweful lot and when I have a big hand I dont get callers.

I dont mind losing a small pot now and again if it makes me appear slightly loose. Doesn't seem to work though.

[mrmuzeman]

Vast majority of players online wont take a blind bit of notice about image and if your playing loose etc. Theyre multitabling, watching tele, browsing the net whatever. I would worry about making plays to seem loose at all. Totally different in live games, people will notice if youre a very tight player in a live game, they wont online.

In full ring cash, dont worry about stealing blinds, making an image or pure bluffing.

Id imagine its just a phase of you not getting paid off on big hands etc. Someone has to have something good to pay you off with, youll go through spells where no one does. I wouldnt worry AT ALL about getting outdrawn when all in in a cash game it means youve made the right play.

[staffy]

Maybe your right. Been monitoring my play a lot more recently and just slightly frustrated. I am not losing money and still making small amounts but very small amounts. Althoug not been dealt AA in ober 350 hands so maybe a big pot due.

I am going to stick at these levels for the time being as an experiment. My aim is to play 10000 hands.

What should my overall aim of profit be then?

[Jannieb]

Originally Posted by staffy

I dont see the problem with my initial raise TBH. My aim is to steal the blinds. Is that such a bad play in position?

Your point off stealing blind would be ok if there was no caller allready, you must give an early caller credit for at least a good drawing hand.offcourse if you have another read off the person it can be allright.

[Jaded]

As Jannie says, why try and steal the blinds when there's already a caller?! The caller MUST have something halfway decent, and there's very little you're ahead of by a decent amount with K2s that he's likely to be playing...

That said, if you ARE trying to steal, then $2 isn't enough, IMO, to force out the caller AND the blinds. $3 or $4 might do it, I suppose...

[GotaFancy?]

Pref lop raises of 6xBB and 8xBB are MASSIVE Jaded - Typical raises are 3x BB, plus one for each caller - so 4xBB is a standard raise here ... seems reasonable enough to me......

Having said that - no way I'm raising in that situation with K2 sooooted.

I think we play a lot of tournaments - where aggression is key and you're needing to constantly "make moves" to stay ahead of the blinds - Cash games are different and call for far fewer moves, and more solid poker - maybe we're all a bit too "experienced" in tourneys ;-)

[GotaFancy?]

The buzz phrase I've heard a lot on PNL that I like at the moment is to "play big hands for big money and small hands for small money" - might sound obvious, but it's very easy (and costly IMO) to get into the habit of betting big to scare people off when you dont want callers, and not betting/slowing down when you to hit for fear of scaring people off......

[Jaded]

Originally Posted by GotaFancy?

I think we play a lot of tournaments - where aggression is key and you're needing to constantly "make moves" to stay ahead of the blinds - Cash games are different and call for far fewer moves, and more solid poker - maybe we're all a bit too "experienced" in tourneys ;-)

Okay, might be my inexperience in cash games shining through, but raising with K2s HAS to be classed as "making a move", surely!! If you're playing solid poker, you have to dump this as soon as you see the caller, yeah?

[GotaFancy?]

Originally Posted by Jaded

If you're playing solid poker, you have to dump this as soon as you see the caller, yeah?

Absolutely