AA - What do you do

[Cloud]

What do you do in this situation???

Full Tilt Poker Game #1160038772: Table Madre Mesa - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 3:58:36 ET - 2006/10/28
Seat 1: -Toothpik- ($49)
Seat 2: KeynesCA ($38.05), is sitting out
Seat 3: obi-wang ($15.90)
Seat 4: cloud71 ($9.40)
Seat 5: jeff48 ($31.80)
Seat 6: frosttine ($21.50)
Seat 8: Ezalbman ($24.25)
Seat 9: jrcarter25 ($40.05)
Ezalbman posts the small blind of $0.10
jrcarter25 posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to cloud71 [Ad Ah]
-Toothpik- folds
obi-wang folds
cloud71 raises to $0.75
jeff48 calls $0.75
frosttine folds
Ezalbman calls $0.65
jrcarter25 folds
*** FLOP *** [3c 9d Js]
betraisefold sits down
Ezalbman checks
cloud71 bets $2
jeff48 calls $2
Ezalbman calls $2
*** TURN *** [3c 9d Js] [Jc]
Ezalbman checks

[mrmuzeman]

Id have to check and fold to any decent bet here unfortunately. Against TWO opponents with NO flush draw on the flop one of them is going to have the top pair so often here. Against 1 opponent you could bet again but its just too likely one of them has a J here as they both call after you made a good flop bet.

A note - do not be afraid to raise it up to 5bb preflop with big pairs preflop. People love to call and it wont decrease your action so do that.

[Cloud]

After the flop I presumed I was still ahead.
The turn might or might not have changed things - and you're right, there was a good chance another player had a Jack.

So as a new cash player I need some advice here.
If I check - will that tell me what the other players have got?? Wouldn't I get bet against anyway - if I check.
If I put in a continuation bet, wouldn't that give me more information??

Here is what actually happened. And as you can see I did put in a continuation bet - which got raised, and then re-raised.


Full Tilt Poker Game #1160038772: Table Madre Mesa - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 3:58:36 ET - 2006/10/28
Seat 1: -Toothpik- ($49)
Seat 2: KeynesCA ($38.05), is sitting out
Seat 3: obi-wang ($15.90)
Seat 4: cloud71 ($9.40)
Seat 5: jeff48 ($31.80)
Seat 6: frosttine ($21.50)
Seat 8: Ezalbman ($24.25)
Seat 9: jrcarter25 ($40.05)
Ezalbman posts the small blind of $0.10
jrcarter25 posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to cloud71 [Ad Ah]
-Toothpik- folds
obi-wang folds
cloud71 raises to $0.75
jeff48 calls $0.75
frosttine folds
Ezalbman calls $0.65
jrcarter25 folds
*** FLOP *** [3c 9d Js]
betraisefold sits down
Ezalbman checks
betraisefold adds $7
cloud71 bets $2
jeff48 calls $2
Ezalbman calls $2
*** TURN *** [3c 9d Js] [Jc]
Ezalbman checks
cloud71 bets $3.25
jeff48 raises to $6.50
Ezalbman has 15 seconds left to act
Ezalbman raises to $12.50
cloud71 folds
jeff48 has 15 seconds left to act
jeff48 calls $6
*** RIVER *** [3c 9d Js Jc] [3h]
Ezalbman bets $9, and is all in
jeff48 calls $9
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Ezalbman shows [9h 9c] (a full house, Nines full of Jacks)
jeff48 shows [Jh Qd] (a full house, Jacks full of Threes)
jeff48 wins the pot ($52.05) with a full house, Jacks full of Threes
Ezalbman is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $54.75 | Rake $2.70
Board: [3c 9d Js Jc 3h]
Seat 1: -Toothpik- didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: KeynesCA is sitting out
Seat 3: obi-wang didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: cloud71 folded on the Turn
Seat 5: jeff48 showed [Jh Qd] and won ($52.05) with a full house, Jacks full of Threes
Seat 6: frosttine (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: Ezalbman (small blind) showed [9h 9c] and lost with a full house, Nines full of Jacks
Seat 9: jrcarter25 (big blind) folded before the Flop

[robilaruk]

well played - that is what I would have done

Make another bet and then see - I wouldn't worry too much about the board and if you check someone bets and takes the pot away from you - or you call and still have no idea if they are bluffing

just happens (as I have found out today )

Damo

Originally Posted by Cloud

After the flop I presumed I was still ahead.
The turn might or might not have changed things - and you're right, there was a good chance another player had a Jack.

So as a new cash player I need some advice here.
If I check - will that tell me what the other players have got?? Wouldn't I get bet against anyway - if I check.
If I put in a continuation bet, wouldn't that give me more information??

Here is what actually happened. And as you can see I did put in a continuation bet - which got raised, and then re-raised.


Full Tilt Poker Game #1160038772: Table Madre Mesa - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 3:58:36 ET - 2006/10/28
Seat 1: -Toothpik- ($49)
Seat 2: KeynesCA ($38.05), is sitting out
Seat 3: obi-wang ($15.90)
Seat 4: cloud71 ($9.40)
Seat 5: jeff48 ($31.80)
Seat 6: frosttine ($21.50)
Seat 8: Ezalbman ($24.25)
Seat 9: jrcarter25 ($40.05)
Ezalbman posts the small blind of $0.10
jrcarter25 posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to cloud71 [Ad Ah]
-Toothpik- folds
obi-wang folds
cloud71 raises to $0.75
jeff48 calls $0.75
frosttine folds
Ezalbman calls $0.65
jrcarter25 folds
*** FLOP *** [3c 9d Js]
betraisefold sits down
Ezalbman checks
betraisefold adds $7
cloud71 bets $2
jeff48 calls $2
Ezalbman calls $2
*** TURN *** [3c 9d Js] [Jc]
Ezalbman checks
cloud71 bets $3.25
jeff48 raises to $6.50
Ezalbman has 15 seconds left to act
Ezalbman raises to $12.50
cloud71 folds
jeff48 has 15 seconds left to act
jeff48 calls $6
*** RIVER *** [3c 9d Js Jc] [3h]
Ezalbman bets $9, and is all in
jeff48 calls $9
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Ezalbman shows [9h 9c] (a full house, Nines full of Jacks)
jeff48 shows [Jh Qd] (a full house, Jacks full of Threes)
jeff48 wins the pot ($52.05) with a full house, Jacks full of Threes
Ezalbman is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $54.75 | Rake $2.70
Board: [3c 9d Js Jc 3h]
Seat 1: -Toothpik- didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: KeynesCA is sitting out
Seat 3: obi-wang didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: cloud71 folded on the Turn
Seat 5: jeff48 showed [Jh Qd] and won ($52.05) with a full house, Jacks full of Threes
Seat 6: frosttine (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: Ezalbman (small blind) showed [9h 9c] and lost with a full house, Nines full of Jacks
Seat 9: jrcarter25 (big blind) folded before the Flop

[glceud]

brutal hand and more so for the pkt 9's guy.
Cant see anything wrong in your play although you could have stuck it all in on the flop and lost to the set of 9's instead which is what I would have done.

[viggosen]

I think i would just have checked the turn, the problem as I see it, I doN´t belive both you opponenets have an underpair, If they call your flop bet because they had a set or a J, then you are behind now, with only 2 outs. If they called your bets with an open ended straight draw (QT/T8) then your bet of 3.25 into a pot of over 8 is to small, they almost have odds to call (provided they think that a straight will be good/No full house), and with implied odds its an easy call.
So you bet will never acomplish anything, it needs to be bigger to force them to lay down a straight draw, and with to callers in this situation you want to try to keep the pot small, so I would just check and give the hand up to a raise.

[mrmuzeman]

So as a new cash player I need some advice here.
If I check - will that tell me what the other players have got?? Wouldn't I get bet against anyway - if I check.
If I put in a continuation bet, wouldn't that give me more information??

I dont really care what they think about what ive got when I check. IM pretty sure one of THEM has a jack so why put more money into a pot your drawing so thin into it just makes no sense at all. Theres no shame in checking when youre pretty sure youre behind. Id bet again against one opponent but not 2.

[Cloud]

A real difference of opinion then - I'm more confused than I was when I put up this thread .

But I suppose that's poker.
Thanks for the input.

[Valiant23]

So as a new cash player I need some advice here.
If I check - will that tell me what the other players have got?? Wouldn't I get bet against anyway - if I check.
If I put in a continuation bet, wouldn't that give me more information??

Originally Posted by mrmuzeman

I dont really care what they think about what ive got when I check. IM pretty sure one of THEM has a jack so why put more money into a pot your drawing so thin into it just makes no sense at all. Theres no shame in checking when youre pretty sure youre behind. Id bet again against one opponent but not 2.

That makes most sense to me.

The fact is cloud that you learn to player poker so that you can eradicate mistakes from your game and the fact that you got away before the river should be applauded (as a cash game beginner), BUT I think mrm is suggesting that you trust yourself. If you felt that you were behind then why pay money to find out?

[Cloud]

Yeah I can see where you are coming from Muzeman/Valiant.
The problem I had was after the turn, the first player only checked , so in my mind I was possibly only up against one opponent.

But my instinct DID tell me i was behind. So I was torn.

[Valiant23]

Originally Posted by Cloud

Yeah I can see where you are coming from Muzeman/Valiant.
The problem I had was after the turn, the first player only checked , so in my mind I was possibly only up against one opponent.

But my instinct DID tell me i was behind. So I was torn.

*** TURN *** [3c 9d Js] [Jc]
Ezalbman checks
cloud71 bets $3.25
jeff48 raises to $6.50
Ezalbman has 15 seconds left to act
Ezalbman raises to $12.50
cloud71 folds
jeff48 has 15 seconds left to act
jeff48 calls $6

Okay, I see your point. But what I imagine would have happened if you had checked is this;

Ezalbman checks
cloud71 bets $3.25checks
jeff48 raises to $6.50 bets $3 (maybe even $5 if he thinks he can take it down here)
Ezalbman has 15 seconds left to act
Ezalbman raises to $12.50
cloud71 (gets as much information but saves $3.25 and) folds
jeff48 has 15 seconds left to act
jeff48 calls $6

Of course it could be that you could have ended up getting sucked into calling a smaller bet and seeing the river, but you knew you were on a 2 outer.

Mate I can't fault your play truthfully, but we're talking ideal solutions aren't we?

[Cloud]

Originally Posted by Valiant23

cloud71 (gets as much information but saves $3.25 and) folds

I like that line