You are the ref

[GotaFancy?]

I'm a little surpised by this - I cannot see the offence....


http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/euro2008/...the_ref_9.html
Now for a reminder of question number 8, followed by Keith Hackett's answer.

Question number 8
It's the quarter-final of Euro 2008. The Netherlands are a goal down with just seconds remaining of added-on time. The referee awards a corner kick to the Dutch.
The Netherlands keeper leaves his goal and races into the opposition penalty area, but the corner is hit too high and is likely to swing past the far post out of play, well out of everyone's reach.
Two Dutch players hoist the keeper high in the air, rugby-style. They do not block, impede or interfere with any opponents as they hold the keeper steady in the air like a towering statue.
The ball flies towards him and he meets it perfectly to head it into the back of the net.
What would you do in this situation?
Keith Hackett's answer
This is a very good question and with the regular exploits of Edwin van der Sar into his opponent's penalty area when playing for Manchester United this could well happen at Euro 2008.
In this type of unusual incident in the heat of a game and in the dying seconds, it could catch a match official out and result in a wrong and very debatable decision.
It is NO GOAL. The two players involved in lifting the goalkeeper, as well as Van der Sar, will be cautioned for UNSPORTING BEHAVIOUR. The game would re-start with an indirect free-kick to the defending team from where the offence took place.
If, however, the offence took place in the goal area, then the kick could be taken from anywhere in the six-yard box.

[slapdash]

I don't know the rules of football intimately, and if there's a rule that covers this, or even precedents for this being regarded as "unsporting behaviour", then fair enough. But otherwise:

I can't see anything wrong with it at all. If you don't think this should be allowed and want to introduce a rule to stop it happening in future, then fair enough. But it seems to me that "unsporting behaviour" is being used here to mean "something that I think should be against the rules, even though it isn't". And it seems scandalous to expect/allow a referee to decide that in the middle of a game.

For me, "unsporting behaviour" means something like trying to wind up another player by making lewd remarks about their girlfriend: something that would be unacceptable behaviour outside the confines of the game. Apart from that, unless some tactic has previously been declared to be unsporting behaviour, it seems to be nonsense to suddenly decide that it's "unsporting": a game's a game; its rules are its rules. If you think it's a bad thing, then blame the people who drew up the rules and didn't think of it.


Why am I thinking about a certain PL poker player?

[Valiant23]

Yeah, this is pretty straightforward for me. Its unsporting behaviour because you are using your team mate to give you an unfair advantage.

A ref once disallowed a goal of ours because our player leaned on his team mate's shoulders in order to get extra height.

[slapdash]

Originally Posted by Valiant23

Yeah, this is pretty straightforward for me. Its unsporting behaviour because you are using your team mate to give you an unfair advantage.

My problem with that is that it sounds a rather circular argument:

... unsporting behaviour ... because ... unfair advantage ...

Certainly, if it's unfair then it's unsporting, and if it's unsporting then it's unfair ...

But why is it unfair? There's certainly nothing inherently unfair about it. In some sports you're allowed to use your team mate to get an advantage in that kind of way, in some you aren't: it's purely a matter of the rules.

A ref once disallowed a goal of ours because our player leaned on his team mate's shoulders in order to get extra height.

Is there a rule that says you're not allowed to do that? (Genuine question: I really don't know.) If there is, then of course it should be penalized.

If there's no rule, but it's generally accepted that this kind of thing is "unsporting", then I guess I also accept that it should be penalized as "unsporting behaviour", though I really dislike that kind of "unwritten rule" in a game: if you're not allowed to do something, then specifically say so in the rules (unless it's "unsporting" because it's clearly something that would be unacceptable behaviour outside the game, like my example of making lewd remarks about an opponent's girlfriend to put him off).

[Valiant23]

My problem with that is that it sounds a rather circular argument:

... unsporting behaviour ... because ... unfair advantage ...

Certainly, if it's unfair then it's unsporting, and if it's unsporting then it's unfair ...

But why is it unfair? There's certainly nothing inherently unfair about it. In some sports you're allowed to use your team mate to get an advantage in that kind of way, in some you aren't: it's purely a matter of the rules.

Quote:
Is there a rule that says you're not allowed to do that? (Genuine question: I really don't know.) If there is, then of course it should be penalized.

I think it has something to do with a single players ability being enhanced due to direct interference from a team mate, but in truth I don't know so I'll have a look.

I learned quite quickly that it was better to question a referee's decision on the basis of a thirst for knowledge than just to be belligerent and 90% of referee's in my experience were happy to explain their decision to me when I simply said I didn't understand and would like to know for future reference.

It amazes me that some of the most ignorant people about the rules of football are the people who spent most of the time playing it. Its like a student of yours arguing with you if you fail a paper of theirs because they think they are right even though you know the rules of mathematics inside out and you know that they are quite plainly wrong.

Sadly it doesn't stop when these players become pundits and I shout in frustration when I hear a pundit explain why a ref is wrong, when even I know he's right.

[Valiant23]

I've contacted the Referee's Association for clarification (until Peteg40 sees this).

[aliando]

slapdash - think of it this way...

if peter crouch lifted Jan koller and they had titus bramble trying to control the ball in defence, then it'd be like giants baseball - not really fair is it?