Martin Jol

[Punto83]

Starting to lose faith in him now, some of the decisions are baffling. The players don't look interested and only one win this season in the league against a shocking Derby side. As Aliando says, the knives are out for him and its painful to watch

[DJ]

So sad that one of the managers that has prompted Spurs most successful league form in recent times is also the 'mastermind' who sees us in the bottom 3 after 10 games. Our fixtures haven't been kind to us and we're playing a lot of matches that we generally lose but still we never seem to be getting any better. Every season I think under Martin Jol we have lost away to Newcastle, every season under Martin Jol we have failed to win at Bolton. Our defence just gets worse, less and less clean sheets and yet there seems to be nothing really done to improve our defensive play. Overall we are too reliant on some players while other we carry irrespective of their form.

I say well done to Martin Jol for the last couple of seasons and bringing back European football. Good luck for the future and hopefully he will find a club where he can come good and become a hero again but it has to be goodbye. Reports around the time of Ramos's link and sighting suggested that he had agreed that Spurs had the players capable of finishing top 4...well then it must be down to the manager! I say sack him now, get it over with and try to bring in someone new. I'm sure there will be enough applicants even if the job is turning in to something of a poisoned chalice. Success with us gets you nowhere unless it's consistent and regular and continued improvement.

[WoodyTHFC]

He has done a good job for us as shown by two fifth placed finishes although the first of them should have been a comfortable fourth if not for so many late goals and conceding vital leads. Sure he has spent a huge amount of money and has some of the best young talent in the country but we have spent money constantly in the past and our previous managers have not achieved such a position so Jol deserves credit. However I think he should go now.
Partly due to the board and also partly due to his inability to change the weaknesses that have been present even in the last two years, failure to keep clean sheets, sloppy defending, failure to win matches from winning positions, lack of character in the team particular away from home to name some of the main ones. These areas have got a lot worse this year. The team seems to lack a spine, it is weak, it lacks leadership and it defends like a pub team. There are too many average players in the team (Zokora, Malbranque, Tanio, Bent still early) to name some who have been purchased and generally have been disappointing and even some of the good players in recent years are not performing such as Dawson who was brilliant last year, Berbatov and his attitude is poor, Lennon. The team selection last night seemed to contradict. Berbatov not playing maybe due to internationals yet Keane was, Defoe not even on the bench, the lack of Lennon until very late and then on the left. The team just looks shot at the moment and even though I expect the results will improve when the fixture list becomes easier, I am not sure that Jol is the right option unfortunately. I would prefer a manger to get some grit into the team and sort us out by making us tougher. Personally I would go for mark Hughes.

[PAULM03]

Personally I would go for Mark Hughes.

That's what I love about spurs, that perfect mixture of comedy and arrogance

There's more chance of spurs being managed by Nerys Hughes.

[BillyHills]

I thinks its time for him to step down, although i know he will hang around until he gets the sack for the financial pay-off.
Jol is a type of manager that would do well with little money rather than have the pick of the crop, he would maybe get the best out of an average squad. He seems to soft to me and trying to accomadate players he has signed.
The defence is so low on confidence, Dawson cant play without King, simple as that, he's a diffeent player when Ledley is there to tell him what to do and give him confidence. The whole defence are a nervous wreck because of the Robinson errors, he should have been dropped, another example of a soft manager. Arsenal didnt mess about with Lehman did they.
Last night we had 4 midfield players that were exactly the same, hard working but not creative enough, chase all night but give the ball away too easily. Berbatov is class and should play every game, he's obviously unhappy and we wont get the best out of him until he gets a regular spot, but again Jol needs to try and justify the massive fee for Bent who has shown nothing to date.
We can argue all day about a tough fixture list and injuries but at the end of the day we should be able to cope with that if we really are a side chasing champion league football rather than championship football.

He must go now, quite like Hughes myself but my partner Suzy from Blackburn would never speak to me again. I'm sure it will be a foreign manger next. If Russia had gone out last week their manager would be lined up somewhere, maybe White Hart Lane.

[WoodyTHFC]

Originally Posted by PAULM03

That's what I love about spurs, that perfect mixture of comedy and arrogance

There's more chance of spurs being managed by Nerys Hughes.

Completely disagree. Hughes has taken Blackburn pretty much as far as they can go. Given the dominance of the big four the best he can realistically achieve, on what is a limited budget which he has used extremely well, is what he has done by taking Blackburn in europe. Sure they could claim fifth given our problems but there is not much more he can do. He would like loads of Premiership managers would relish the chance at Tottenham. We posses great financial power which is better than any other club outside the big four and in terms of money spent is actually greater than some teams in the big four. Plus he would have some of the best youngsters around who have enormous potential to improve.

[PAULM03]

Originally Posted by WoodyTHFC

Completely disagree. Hughes has taken Blackburn pretty much as far as they can go. Given the dominance of the big four the best he can realistically achieve, on what is a limited budget which he has used extremely well, is what he has done by taking Blackburn in europe. Sure they could claim fifth given our problems but there is not much more he can do. He would like loads of Premiership managers would relish the chance at Tottenham. We posses great financial power which is better than any other club outside the big four and in terms of money spent is actually greater than some teams in the big four. Plus he would have some of the best youngsters around who have enormous potential to improve.

See, this is what I'm talking about.

Spurs can give Hughes nothing he doesn't have a Blackburn. Sure they'll give him a pot of cash but to what end? Wenger's built all of Arsenal's recent success on a shoestring, they also, incidentally have more, better younger players than you.

I don't want to spurs bash, i have nothing against them but you need to have a look at your place in the pecking order. You're roughly on a par with Blackburn, probably a bit behind them.

[Punto83]

Originally Posted by PAULM03

I don't want to spurs bash, i have nothing against them but you need to have a look at your place in the pecking order. You're roughly on a par with Blackburn, probably a bit behind them.

WoodyTHFC isn't wrong in what he says mate. I think THFC are the richest club in Europe who haven't played champions league footy. Quite rightly you say wealth isn't everything but it does give you an advantage.

With sell out crowds week in/ week out, plans in the pipeline either for a new stadium or improving WHL I find you saying that we are probably a bit behind Blackburn as surprising?

I agree, Blackburn and Tottenham are on the same level but I would hazard a guess that the Tottenham job is more attractive than the Blackburn job. Of course I'm biased and Carl and Sharpey will think I'm talking bollocks. I don't think I'm being arrogant? However, I also think Fev have the potential to be as big as the Wildcats

[PAULM03]

Originally Posted by Punto83

WoodyTHFC isn't wrong in what he says mate. I think THFC are the richest club in Europe who haven't played champions league footy. Quite rightly you say wealth isn't everything but it does give you an advantage.

With sell out crowds week in/ week out, plans in the pipeline either for a new stadium or improving WHL I find you saying that we are probably a bit behind Blackburn as surprising?

I agree, Blackburn and Tottenham are on the same level but I would hazard a guess that the Tottenham job is more attractive than the Blackburn job. Of course I'm biased and Carl and Sharpey will think I'm talking bollocks. I don't think I'm being arrogant? However, I also think Fev have the potential to be as big as the Wildcats

Nah you're not arrogant, I'm just playing devil's advocate. Although I do believe Spurs aren't a big club anymore. Not in terms of success anyway and I do think they'd struggle to attract Mark Hughes, who seems to be destined for bigger things at the minute.

On the Fev V Wildcats thing, it's not so long since you were bigger than us. It's not so long since you signed Gary price, who was at the time one of only 2 full GB internationals we'd had for absolutely years (still is I think). Personally I'm still up for the merger. Although as Fev is a town in the Wakefield district, along with Cas we can get you both on board and be called Wakefield Trinity.

[garyfinny]

You could even argue that West Ham are bigger than Spurs.

Same attendances, backed with more cash, their wage bill is probably larger, too.

[Punto83]

Originally Posted by PAULM03

On the Fev V Wildcats thing, it's not so long since you were bigger than us. It's not so long since you signed Gary price, who was at the time one of only 2 full GB internationals we'd had for absolutely years (still is I think). Personally I'm still up for the merger. Although as Fev is a town in the Wakefield district, along with Cas we can get you both on board and be called Wakefield Trinity.

haha

Gary H Price, cracking player!

Merger would at least guarantee a Wakefield side a franchise in 2009.

Going back to Spurs, agree about Mark Hughes...... he is destined for bigger and better things than both Blackburn and Spurs

[cavelloman]

Man United	9	11	2	1.44	149	65	23.77	7.38	77	23	11.11	2.0	1.5
Arsenal	8	19	6	3.12	120	82	25.25	15.83	65	33	12.25	1.7	0.9
Liverpool	8	14	4	2.25	137	65	25.25	10.21	41	29	8.75	1.7	1.1
Tottenham	9	16	18	3.77	122	105	25.22	13.11	73	40	12.55	0.4	0.6
Chelsea	9	8	8	1.77	129	107	26.22	6.2	59	41	11.11	0.4	0.4
Portsmoutt	9	17	12	3.22	124	115	26.55	13.7	55	59	12.66	0.3	0.1

Above my ratings for the 6 highest prior to last night match.

Tottenham are getting penetration in their matches and therefore will start winning matches in the long run. But he will join other managers sacked because supporters don't understand ther overall statistical picture. A new manager will arrive and Spurs will start winning with the new guy (But they would have anyway!!!)

[DJ]

Cavelloman, what are the statistics for? There are no headings so unless I'm being thick it's just a random table of numbers.

Thanks

[WoodyTHFC]

Originally Posted by garyfinny

You could even argue that West Ham are bigger than Spurs.

Same attendances, backed with more cash, their wage bill is probably larger, too.

Except we are not a yo yo club and we have been spending constantly for years not just one.

[cavelloman]

P

GF

GA

Avg

SF

SA

Avg

Cnv%

CF

A

CAvg

PEN POW

PURE PEN

These should have been the headings

[mowgli77]

Originally Posted by cavelloman

These should have been the headings

Seen these ratings before in your systems thread. Are they based on purely attacking football then? How do you get the PEN POW and PURE PEN ratings and what are they?

[kevshat]

Originally Posted by mowgli77

Seen these ratings before in your systems thread. Are they based on purely attacking football then? How do you get the PEN POW and PURE PEN ratings and what are they?

The further you bring your foot back the more PEN POW you get .

[Appy Ammer]

Originally Posted by WoodyTHFC

Except we are not a yo yo club and we have been spending constantly for years not just one.

And what has it won you? League cup.....wow

[cavelloman]

Originally Posted by mowgli77

Seen these ratings before in your systems thread. Are they based on purely attacking football then? How do you get the PEN POW and PURE PEN ratings and what are they?

Pen Power is an numerical assessment of penetration including goals. A team in any match can obtain a positive figure or a negative figure.

Pure Pen is without goals being used.

The top leagues generally have a bigger gap between top and bottom teams except for Ligue 1 of France which is more closely rated then any league I produce ratings for.

[WoodyTHFC]

Originally Posted by Appy Ammer

And what has it won you? League cup.....wow

Two league titles including the amazing double team of 60-61, eight FA Cups including the first non league team to win the FA Cup, three league cups, the first British team to win a European trophy when winning the Cup winners cup by thrasing Madrid 5-1, two UEFA Cups. What have you won?