man u v fulham

Further extending Fergies contract will be a mistake, which the club atm looks likely to make.

The change of manager should have taken place when it was first announced.

[waynemcke]

To be honest DH, not really. We've got an outside chance I guess and will probably progress to the quarters/semis again but we'll probably finish one step too short.

Think the problem lies not so much in the lack of Utd's progression but more the fact that others have progressed at a quicker rate.

Still don't agree that Fergie should go though. We've got a man that has been there, done that. We'd need to replace him with someone off a similar calibre and there aren't too many suitable and available candidates out there that could make a bigger impact than Fergie.

Also think that the fact he answers to a PLC has got to be a disadvantage. How can he ask for another £30m player when Veron was (and always will be in English football) a flop and Rio's having his own problems. Fergie played the same system that Lazio played to accomodate Veron and he still couldn't do it. Can't see how that's the manager's fault that he was let down so badly by what was one of the world's best players. But the PLC look at it as a business decision that was wrong. It's only black and white in business!

Chelsea without doubt now have the best squad. But that begs a question. We always had the best squad (bar the Scousers) in the 80s, broke transfer records, etc but basically won nowt. It remains to be seen if Chelsea will be similar.

I do agree that we are living on dangerous ground with just RVN up front as the 'quality' striker but the Dutch have shown that they can't play with him and Kluivert up front. Why would it be different at OT? RVN isn't going to put up with playing 50% of the games to allow the other top-class striker to play as well is he? His appearance rate is exceptional and with Ole (ok he is injured) and Forlan (hmm...) as back up as well as the options with Giggsy and maybe Scholes (who played up front as a kid) probably feels that its something we can get away with. Again, there's only Chelski that have the options. If the Arse lost Henry, they'd be up the creek without a paddle as well.

I'm definitely not of the opinion that we can't question Fergie, as I do on a fairly regular basis, just because he's been successful, but we must bear in mind that he got flak for doing strange things like selling Ince, Kanchelskis, Hughes, etc in the past and always came through with a trophy. Even the sale of Ralph Milne was questioned

I just don't agree with the fact that this thread appeared with an over-reaction to a defeat. Why was the thread not posted after the Rangers game when it was more applicable to the Euro game?

Sorry I cant do those quote things

I mentioned the very same thing on the euro thread in early september.

This is not an over reaction to one defeat.

Fair enough maybe I am a little morpessamistic than others but believe my sentiments are right and refuse to be swallowed up in all this "everything's ok" attitude.

Fistly in the mid 90's football was a differnet game and with the introduction of foreign managers and players the gulf in class between top european sides and the domestic sides is reducing or should be.
I reckon that Fergie got away with his ability to man manage his players and make sure the "Hunger" was still their.
Now its a different ball game and Fergie doesnt seem to have the knowledge of the global game as Wenger and Ranieri - although I except their records are incomporable at the moment.

Fergie has built his success rightly on the youth team of 90/91 and its amazing how many players from that squad not only succeeded at United but other clubs at varying levels: Savage, Thornley, Murdoch, Pilkington, Mulryne, Notman, Healey - (last three maybe the year after). But the same quality of player does not appear to becoming through.

You said yourself that other teams are progressing faster, who's fault is this?

You say fergie feels he can get away losing RVN - or RVN probably wont get injured, do you not think this is irresponsible not only to the fans but PLC also, How much would it cost the club getting knoked out of the CL early?

If and its a big If, RVN gets injured and we finish outside the top 3 which would be a significant possibility were would the buck stop?

Arsenal would obviously miss Henry but at least they have options in Wiltord and Bergkamp and again maybe they would look at a replacement if this happend in Jan. I personally feel that Viera is the most significant player at Highbury and they struggle the most without him.

Anyway Im off because Im sounding like a broken record

Wayne - are you also known as "BeanHead"?
I remember meeting someone by this name on a number of euro aways, who talked similar to you and worked in IT, if so do tou still see Mike from Wigan, Luke, Fergus et al?

[waynemcke]

Beanhead! Not me fella. I have got a bald head though, so I might start calling myself it.

You say fergie feels he can get away losing RVN - or RVN probably wont get injured, do you not think this is irresponsible not only to the fans but PLC also, How much would it cost the club getting knoked out of the CL early?

Just showing off coz I can do these quote thingys!

I do feel it irresponsible if Fergie had tried to do nothing about filling the no. 9 shirt but I simply don't believe that to be the case. Do you? Even an amateur manager would realise that the no. 9 shirt should be occupied. The fact that Fergie has not 'promoted' anyone into that shirt says to me that he's still on the look-out for a top player to fill it.

I don't feel that the PLC would be rushing to spend £25-30m on a new no. 9 as we are getting 'far enough' in the CL in their opinion and generating more and more profit as it is. Keeps the fatcats happy! Utd earnt more last year than they did the year we won the CL! I wonder if the PLC would see another £30m player as too much of a risk a la Veron? Spending £30m to earn back £25m in extra revenue, etc that is not guaranteed?

Arsenal would obviously miss Henry but at least they have options in Wiltord and Bergkamp and again maybe they would look at a replacement if this happend in Jan. I personally feel that Viera is the most significant player at Highbury and they struggle the most without him.

I wouldn't swap the Wiltord & Bergkamp options for playing Ole, Giggsy or Scholesy up front. Bergkamp is past it and Wiltord flatters to deceive imo.

As for Viera, again imo, he's the most significant player in the league. Love to see him in a our red shirt!

You said yourself that other teams are progressing faster, who's fault is this?

I think its yours for being so pessimistic!

Well Im sorry your not "Bean Head", perhaps if the real BH frequents these boards he can identify himself!

I think there are some things people will never totally agree on anyway, decent discussion was had BTW.