Alpay

[Joe]

It's not like me to be politaically correct, but I'd have to say that Alpay departure from Aston Villa smacks of a sort of xenophobia.

Only a few weeks before, Keown and chums were seen doing just the same (as Alpay did to Beckham) to Van Nistleroy, yet the man played for England and doubtless has experienced no ill feeling from any fans. No fans have called for his dismissal from either Arsenal or England.

Meanwhile Alpay gets booed by his own supporters even when scoring and has now departed by mutual consent. What he did in the England-Turkey game was pretty unsavoury to say the least, but surely teams can't bend to ignorant public pressure of this kind, even if it's the most practical option.

Whilst not quite the same, this reminds me of all the shite that Neil Lennon has copped, and for that mater, Alex Ferguson at Rangers in the 60s because he marrried a catholic.

I have to ask myself, if Roy Keane had, hypothetically speaking, done the same in an England-Ireland game, or Duncan Ferguson in an England-Scotland game, or Ryan Giggs in an England-Wales game, would the reaction by the fans and the public be the same? I very much doubt it. I fear this has a lot to do with the current bad climate between England and Turkey at a footballing level, and the racist undertones seem to be simmering not far below.

Anyone else got any thoughts on this?

[Matt]

It no different to what Beckham did at the stadium of light. He blew kisses and taunted Alpay and Tugay, Alpay did the same back to him in istanbul just in tad different actiions. I really cant believe how much press time etc has been dedicated to this. I agree Joe had it been anyone else nothing would have been said.


I dont care if he said something about his mother, that happens in ever game, I remember once telling a defender I was going to rape his mother a few minutes after he had said he would slash my throat, it all part of the game on the pitch.

Having said that, like Ive said before, the England/Turkey hatred thing seems to have brought out a lot of national pride in a lot of people, and that is only a good thing for people like me. It doesnt bother me if a bit of xenophobia brings about some much needed nationalism to this country.

Shoot me.

Matt,

I think national pride is good. There is nothing wrong with celebrating the achievements off your country, even in a football context, be it getting a vital result in a difficult away game or even beating Lithuania The sight of hundred and hundreds of Saltires/Lion Rampants at Hampden in the big games again makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. I am sure you would say the same to hundreds of St Georges Crosses being flown at a big England game.

Xenophobia is different though - it literally means a fear of foreigners or strangers and has implications of more concentrating on putting "them" down than supporting your own team/nation. It would be nice to think that the English support England due to their pride in being English and the success/achievements of their team rather than because you beat someone you disliked. Its as I said ages ago, I am more interested in Scotland getting a result than England not getting one. I just wish more people up here felt the same way, were Scotland fans, not Anti England fans.

I take Joe's point on board. What Alpay and Keown did was not really different and in the end both are tubes irrespective of nationality. Alpay has basically taken the heat of Keown as he has now became the news.

However I have no sympathy for him on a footballing level. Ignore this latest episode and you will find he was still disliked by the Villa fans, not because of his nationality but because of his attitude to playing/not playing for Villa and really just robbing them of wages with no real effort in return. The guy has been working his ticket for ages, he has put in minimal effort for his money IMO. Villa are well shot of him and its actually sad that something such as this incident has only now made them come to their senses. He should have been emptied ages ago.

[PAULM03]

i dont think alpays departure from villa has anything to do with xenophobia, like crowie said this has been coming for a long time. It wasnt two minutes since he was trying his best to get a move away, now he's got his wish and good riddance.

As for the differences in reaction to keown/alpay IMO its just plain old double standards on our part. Nothing wrong with that is there joe?

I think if Alpay had no history at Villa then he'd probably ride the storm out. He'd get booed for a few games but if he kept his mouth shut I think it would blow over. The trouble is he's not popular with the players or the fans at Villa and he's become more trouble than it's worth.

It's probably convenient for Villa and Alpay. I can't believe the big lunk wants to stay in England - he says there are a few clubs interested in him.