The Great Conspiracy - The 9/11 news special you never saw

[accuman]

A PNAC document written by many of the neo-cons printed a year before, contained the following chilling statement.

"the process of [military] transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor ...

A year later they got their wish.

Many people say those making the claim just haven't got enough evidence. Do you know why?

The genius of the crime was that the attack involved destroying all the evidence, that was in theose three massive buildings.

WTC7 Floor Occupancy

Government Offices

CIA - 25

Department of Defense (DOD) - 25

IRS Regional Council - 24, 25

Mayor's Office of Emergency Mgmt - 23

Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) - 18

U.S. Secret Service - 9,10

Securities & Exchange Commission - 11,12,13

Just imagine all the information that was in that building alone.

[accuman]

Originally Posted by PAULM03

To be honest I'm past caring what happened on 11/9. Whether it was planned by the US or not the fact is the event has been used and abused by a number of governments in an attempt to force people to hand over their rights.

Even if you still believe Bin Laden was behind it all, despite the distinct lack of evidence, that alone amounts to terrorism by their own definition...

"..activities that involve violent... ... that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State and... appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and ......© occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States......© occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the United States..."

They have used Orwell doublespeak ever since 9/11, as they have been trying to keep people in a constant state of fear, but at the same time have been telling people to keep working and to keep spending money. We were told the terrorists hate our freedoms, but the only people who keep taking away our freedoms are the people running the governments.

Most people never even question who the real terrorists are...

[accuman]

Fury as academics claim 9/11 was 'inside job'

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...%27/article.do

This is not going to go away anytime soon, so why are many people still scared to look at all the evidence for themselves?

[Guy Fawkes]

Originally Posted by accuman

Fury as academics claim 9/11 was 'inside job'

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...%27/article.do

This is not going to go away anytime soon, so why are many people still scared to look at all the evidence for themselves?

Why you so keen on peddling all this conspiracy stuff? People will either believe it or they'll search through the mountain of stuff on the internet for themselves and come to their own conclusions.

[accuman]

Originally Posted by Nehemiah

Why you so keen on peddling all this conspiracy stuff? People will either believe it or they'll search through the mountain of stuff on the internet for themselves and come to their own conclusions.

Well many people still haven't even heard of any alternative to the official story...

I am just trying to make people's research easier by pointing out the better sites, which actually use evidence to back up their claims, unlike the official story which resorts to wild speculation.

Looks like many Americans are beginning to realise what happened...

http://www.sweetness-light.com/archi...ieve-bush-knew

A third of U.S. public believes 9/11 conspiracy theory

By THOMAS HARGROVE and GUIDO H. STEMPEL III
August 1, 2006

More than a third of the American public suspects that federal officials assisted in the 9/11 terrorist attacks or took no action to stop them so the United States could go to war in the Middle East, according to a new Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll.

Thirty-six percent of respondents overall said it is "very likely" or "somewhat likely" that federal officials either participated in the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon or took no action to stop them "because they wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East."

"One out of three sounds high, but that may very well be right," said Lee Hamilton, former vice chairman of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (also called the 9/11 commission.) His congressionally appointed investigation concluded that federal officials bungled their attempts to prevent, but did not participate in, the attacks by al Qaeda five years ago.

"A lot of people I’ve encountered believe the U.S. government was involved," Hamilton said. "Many say the government planned the whole thing. Of course, we don’t think the evidence leads that way at all."

[pinhofap]

accuman,

you cannot convince people of something like this. Anyone who wants to investigate should do it and he will have to select around 1% of facts in 99% of speculation regarding this issue. I know because I have done it, and I have drawn my own conclusions about things like UFO, 911 conspiracies, etc. Ever since I was a kid I have been fascinated by UFO's and it's amazing the tons of bulls***t you have to read until you find some scientific data.
Regarding 911, there are some things which I just don't don't believe, and that's because it's my job to do them every day. I fly Search and Rescue helicopters, but I've flown fighter aircraft before (French trainer Alpha Jet), and it is very hard to believe that the Air Defence surrounding New York would take more than 15 minutes to put fighters in the air. The second aircraft would never hit the towers, much less the Pentagon plane. I think the first fighters were scrambled more than 30 minutes after the first plane crash. Man, this just doesn't happen, these pilots sleep at night in the hangar next to their planes so that they can take off in 10/15 minutes. It is also common to have interceptions in the USA and in every Western Country due to comm failures, navigation equipment failures, etc. And from what I know, the US Air Defence System is one of the best in the world, I just don't buy 30+ minutes to respond.
Another thing that doesn't add up is that terrorists with very little flight experience would be able to perform a 270º turn at 5 G's to hit the Pentagon. Those are commercial planes that just don't have the fast response a fighter has to pull 5 G's like that and roll out quickly to hit a building. This would involve above average flying skills, and I find it strange that there is wide belief in the media the hijackers were not good pilots. Try to do it on flight simulator with a 757, a 270º turn descending with a 5000 fpm descent rate , airspeed and g's increasing as you go, and hitting the pentagon, you will need to try it a few times until you are able to do it.

Just my two cents, I feel the greatest admiration for the heroes who went into those buildings to save lives and perished, no matter what the cause is, that's what we should always remember...

[ksportz]

My thoughts on this is that Bush knew something about this and that there was a monumental cock-up in intelligence. The Hijackers were known to FBI / CIA but 'lost' in the weeks running up to 911.

Perhaps Bush was waiting for a terrorist event to justify invading Afghanistan / Iraq but he didn't expect it on this scale.

I feel noone could have predicted that the WTC's would collapse although remember these buildings are pretty hollow structures made of lightweight materials. The program last night had eyewitness accounts of how doors on lower floors had started to jam due to the building buckling before it collapsed. If explosives were planted this would not have happened.

The BBC showed a program a couple of years before 911 on how USA / UK were worried about IRAQ oil. They don't want to own the oil but the didn't want Saddam to be able to control world supply in the future. This way Blair can come out and say we are not invading to take the oil.

We are completely spun by this government and blitzed with buzzwords and scare mongering. After 911 you turned on the TV and heard the acronym WMD within 5 minutes. This went on for months and months until we all started believing it. Complete crap.

Politics is f*cked worldwide.

RIP all those heroic firemen who made there last climb to save people in WTC + all innocent lives taken.

[bartonbank]

Originally Posted by accuman

A third of U.S. public believes 9/11 conspiracy theory

I don't think that backs up any argument!!
What percentage of Americans believe in alien abduction?

[Ell Ess Dee]

Propbably the best out the lot..

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=terror+storm

[accuman]

Originally Posted by pinhofap

accuman,

you cannot convince people of something like this. Anyone who wants to investigate should do it and he will have to select around 1% of facts in 99% of speculation regarding this issue. I know because I have done it, and I have drawn my own conclusions about things like UFO, 911 conspiracies, etc. Ever since I was a kid I have been fascinated by UFO's and it's amazing the tons of bulls***t you have to read until you find some scientific data.

Regarding 911, there are some things which I just don't don't believe, and that's because it's my job to do them every day. I fly Search and Rescue helicopters, but I've flown fighter aircraft before (French trainer Alpha Jet), and it is very hard to believe that the Air Defence surrounding New York would take more than 15 minutes to put fighters in the air. The second aircraft would never hit the towers, much less the Pentagon plane. I think the first fighters were scrambled more than 30 minutes after the first plane crash. Man, this just doesn't happen, these pilots sleep at night in the hangar next to their planes so that they can take off in 10/15 minutes. It is also common to have interceptions in the USA and in every Western Country due to comm failures, navigation equipment failures, etc. And from what I know, the US Air Defence System is one of the best in the world, I just don't buy 30+ minutes to respond.
Another thing that doesn't add up is that terrorists with very little flight experience would be able to perform a 270º turn at 5 G's to hit the Pentagon. Those are commercial planes that just don't have the fast response a fighter has to pull 5 G's like that and roll out quickly to hit a building. This would involve above average flying skills, and I find it strange that there is wide belief in the media the hijackers were not good pilots. Try to do it on flight simulator with a 757, a 270º turn descending with a 5000 fpm descent rate , airspeed and g's increasing as you go, and hitting the pentagon, you will need to try it a few times until you are able to do it.

Just my two cents, I feel the greatest admiration for the heroes who went into those buildings to save lives and perished, no matter what the cause is, that's what we should always remember...

I am not trying to convince anybody to believe me, but I guess I am trying to convince people that there is way more to 9/11 than the official story. I agree completely that most sites are full of disinfo, but if people really want to do their homework, they can sort fact from fiction.

Your experience about the fighter jets and 9/11 is just the kind of thing that could make people realise there is no way 19 muslims acting alone could have free reign over US airspace for nearly two hours...

What do you make of the claim that the plane that hit the pentagon, was flown by Hanjour, who was widely reported to be incredibly incompetent?

I agree on the firefighters and all the people that were trapped in the towers, but I think the very least they deserve is the truth. Here is a new film just released called '9/11:press for truth', which tells the story of some of the victims widows and the trouble they had to go to, just to set up an investigation of any sort. The subsequent coverup of the 9/11 commission is also looked at...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...ress+for+truth

[accuman]

Originally Posted by bartonbank

I don't think that backs up any argument!!
What percentage of Americans believe in alien abduction?

I wasn't trying to back up any arguement with it, as the polls reveal higher numbers of people in most other countries also believe 9/11 was an inside job.

The only reason people still think this is some kind of nutjob theory is because the media has never even questioned the official conspiracy theory, despite all the glaringly obvious problems with it...

[accuman]

Originally Posted by ksportz

My thoughts on this is that Bush knew something about this and that there was a monumental cock-up in intelligence. The Hijackers were known to FBI / CIA but 'lost' in the weeks running up to 911.

This seems to be a fairly standard response, so what do all the people that think the same as you, have to say about building 7?

Here is what a Dutch demolition expert had to say, when he was shown footage of the building coming down...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uqrn5x2_f6Q&NR

[AJ]

I tend to think on balance of probability that events occurred exactly as the media reported them, a bunch of arabs highjacked planes and killed the pilots and flew them into buildings.

My reasons for this as follows

If the whole thing was a setup, why did flight 93 crash into a field ? Did the goverment do this ? If they were smart enough to stage the rest why not do this one properly as well.

Given that a conspiracy of this scale requires a huge level of planning and intellegence, do you really think the US goverment is capable of it ? and more important of keeping it quiet, to pull this off just how many people would need to be involved ?? My guess is several hundred.

Also look at the shambles of iraq and afghanistan, don't you think someone smart enough to fake a terrorist outrage would be smart enough to do these properly.

[accuman]

Originally Posted by Foolsgold

I tend to think on balance of probability that events occurred exactly as the media reported them, a bunch of arabs highjacked planes and killed the pilots and flew them into buildings.

Have you ever considered the possibility that the hijackers were hijacked?

The amount of evidence which proves plenty of people in the US government had prior knowledge is staggering, including the classified military program Able Danger, which had identified Atta and at least three other alleged hijackers in February 2000...

http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20050...3902-5531r.htm

Then, in July 2004, just weeks before the commission released its report, a naval intelligence officer approached commission staff members with information saying that Able Danger had identified Atta and three other hijackers as early as February 2000. The commission, however, never mentioned Able Danger or what it supposedly found in its final report.

My reasons for this as follows

If the whole thing was a setup, why did flight 93 crash into a field ?

What makes you so sure flight 93 really did crash in a field?

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/images...llery/9301.jpg

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/911/images/00037r.jpg

How about this magic red bandana which was recently produced as evidence in the Moussaoui trial?

http://www.rcfp.org/moussaoui/jpg/size600/PA00111-1.jpg

According to Hollywood all the arab terrorists are wearing them...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi1ZNEjEarw

I don't think people realise just how powerful all this propaganda can be.

Did the goverment do this ? If they were smart enough to stage the rest why not do this one properly as well.

Most of the evidence, especially the 8 mile debris field and eyewitness accounts strongly suggest the plane was shot down. Here are some eyewitness accounts which you probably haven't heard before...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tg77n3ckHGI

It seems as though shooting down the plane wasn't in the script, as Cheney the prophet revealed...

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLI...ney/index.html

Word came that Flight 93 crashed in Pennsylvania. Aides frantically called the White House to find out whether a military jet had shot it down.

"The vice president was a little bit ahead of us," said Eric Edelman, Cheney's national security advisor. "He said sort of softly and to nobody in particular, 'I think an act of heroism just took place on that plane.'"

I think the plan all along was to create a story of the bravery of the passengers fighting back in the face of the arab terrorists, which Bush has recently called the first counter attack to WWIII...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems...5/s1632213.htm

Given that a conspiracy of this scale requires a huge level of planning and intellegence, do you really think the US goverment is capable of it ?

The US government spend about $500 billion a year on intelligence, so for people to believe they had no idea of any elaborate plot that was supposedly 5 years in the making is madness.

Do you think Bin Laden was capable of it?

and more important of keeping it quiet, to pull this off just how many people would need to be involved ?? My guess is several hundred.

The official theory was thrust on everybody within hours, when we were all still in a state of shock, so we all just believed what we were told without even questioning it. Within days so called experts came out and explained how the steel melted, which caused the towers to collapse...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1540044.stm

"It was the fire that killed the buildings. There's nothing on earth that could survive those temperatures with that amount of fuel burning," said structural engineer Chris Wise.

"The columns would have melted, the floors would have melted and eventually they would have collapsed one on top of each other."

The buildings' construction manager, Hyman Brown, agreed that nothing could have saved them from the inferno.

"The buildings would have stood had a plane or a force caused by a plane smashed into it," he said.

"But steel melts, and 24,000 gallons (91,000 litres) of aviation fluid melted the steel.

Sounds perfectly plausible except for one big problem, jet fuel CANNOT melt steel...

I know it may seem highly unlikely that people would lie to keep something this big quiet, but the system we live in is totally corrupt and everybody has a price...

Did you watch the new documentary 9/11:press for truth?

Did you know the US government initially gave the 9/11 commission just $3M to investigate allegedly the biggest terrorist attack in history?

Also look at the shambles of iraq and afghanistan, don't you think someone smart enough to fake a terrorist outrage would be smart enough to do these properly.

What do you mean by do these properly?

They have created even more enemies in the last few years than ever before, which are needed to keep this fake war on terror going...

[Runar K]

Accuman, look, I'm not going to belittle your statements by ridiculing them, because I think every person has the right to his or her opinion, but 9/11 was an act of terrorism by Al Qaida. The evidence are overwhelming, and what the film "Loose change" says has been thoroughly picked apart by evidence to the contrary. I can't post any links because it's all from memory, but I'm sure you and everyone else know how to look up anything and everything on the www, just as you found all the other stuff.

What happened to the towers, the way they came down, etc., all a matter of gravity, any building expert will tell you this. Building 7 was so damaged by the towers falling and the raging fire, that's why it fell. All in all 9 buildings were destroyed by the terrorist act, and looking at how close they were standing and how tall the Twin Towers were, it's a miracle not more buildings were destroyed. That being said, the Deutsche Bank building will be "building victim" number 10. The building was still there - wrapped in black netting - when I visited NYC in the spring of last year, but it became so weakened by massive debris falling on it on Sept 11 that it is unusable, and it is now being deconstructed.

Originally Posted by accuman

Sounds perfectly plausible except for one big problem, jet fuel CANNOT melt steel...

No, but the jet fuel caused the structure to weaken so that the buildings collapsed.

Originally Posted by accuman

I know it may seem highly unlikely that people would lie to keep something this big quiet, but the system we live in is totally corrupt and everybody has a price...

Someone, somewhere, would have said something, or we would have seen an awful lot of murders to keep this thing quiet if the American authorities had been behind it. Sorry, but it's just not possible to keep something of this magnitude, which would have had to involve an awful lot of people, secret in a society as transparent as the American.

Originally Posted by accuman

Why did the secret service let Bush sit there in the classroom, if it really was a surprise attack?

I think they all froze, Bush included. What is clear is that the attack should have been avoided, had all the intelligence gathered been coordinated. That's the real sin by the American authorities - they weren't alert enough, and didn't do enough to protect their people. And as a result the Twin Towers employees were effectively like sitting ducks.

[Runar K]

Originally Posted by accuman

The genius of the crime was that the attack involved destroying all the evidence, that was in theose three massive buildings.

WTC7 Floor Occupancy

Government Offices

CIA - 25

Department of Defense (DOD) - 25

IRS Regional Council - 24, 25

Mayor's Office of Emergency Mgmt - 23

Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) - 18

U.S. Secret Service - 9,10

Securities & Exchange Commission - 11,12,13

Just imagine all the information that was in that building alone.

Hm, neither the CIA, nor the Department of Defense, had offices in the old 7WTC, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...e_Center_Seven

and http://worldtradeaftermath.com/wta/w...floor_wtc7.asp

[accuman]

Originally Posted by Runar K

Accuman, look, I'm not going to belittle your statements by ridiculing them, because I think every person has the right to his or her opinion, but 9/11 was an act of terrorism by Al Qaida.

How can you possibly be certain? as we have been continually deceived by these puppets in suits...

The evidence are overwhelming, and what the film "Loose change" says has been thoroughly picked apart by evidence to the contrary. I can't post any links because it's all from memory, but I'm sure you and everyone else know how to look up anything and everything on the www, just as you found all the other stuff.

Loose change makes a terrible mess of presenting the evidence. What makes you think the video is anything more than a wake up call?

What happened to the towers, the way they came down, etc., all a matter of gravity, any building expert will tell you this. Building 7 was so damaged by the towers falling and the raging fire, that's why it fell.

You were told building 7 was seriously damaged, but the only rational conclusion is that it was demolished...

Any highly paid expert will tell you it was fire and damage, otherwise they wouldn't be highly paid...

All in all 9 buildings were destroyed by the terrorist act, and looking at how close they were standing and how tall the Twin Towers were, it's a miracle not more buildings were destroyed. That being said, the Deutsche Bank building will be "building victim" number 10. The building was still there - wrapped in black netting - when I visited NYC in the spring of last year, but it became so weakened by massive debris falling on it on Sept 11 that it is unusable, and it is now being deconstructed.

Only three buildings came down on september 11th...

The 9/11 commission only talked about two, as they forgot to mention building 7 and how it could have totally collapsed symmetrically at free-fall speed, 7 hours after the north tower...

No, but the jet fuel caused the structure to weaken so that the buildings collapsed.

Now you are presenting speculation as fact...

Someone, somewhere, would have said something, or we would have seen an awful lot of murders to keep this thing quiet if the American authorities had been behind it. Sorry, but it's just not possible to keep something of this magnitude, which would have had to involve an awful lot of people, secret in a society as transparent as the American.

Do you think the American government is transparent?

I think they all froze, Bush included. What is clear is that the attack should have been avoided, had all the intelligence gathered been coordinated. That's the real sin by the American authorities - they weren't alert enough, and didn't do enough to protect their people. And as a result the Twin Towers employees were effectively like sitting ducks.

All the training that everybody did in case of an event just like 9/11, was completely forgotten?

In this case doing nothing was a very effective strategy...

[misky]

Just got regular internet access again after a few months whilst moving.
Loose Change is one of the first things I came across, completely by accident, and I cant even remember how.
Spent a good few days wishing that I hadn't come accross it.
I'm off work at the moment (with ligament damage from football... please feel free to to tell me what everyone else has... ''You're too old, knock it on the head, grow up you're 35 etc etc) so after a couple of days I went back to that there google video to face it and maybe find something to make me feel better or back up the official story.
All I can say I say is that loose change was a starting point and there are lots and lots of videos and information about this.
The question is: Do you really want to know?

You cant really blame people for not wanting to face it.
Imagine your little boy/girl coming home from school after a history lesson and asking ''Daddy, what was 9/11 all about?"
What are you going to tell them?... Really, what are you going to tell them??
I think there may be a little of something like this running your mind when your asked to confont this. Its not easy is it?

[bartonbank]

Originally Posted by accuman

I am just trying to make people's research easier by pointing out the better sites, which actually use evidence to back up their claims, unlike the official story which resorts to wild speculation.

No you are not, accuman, you have shown your partiality by referring to 'Loose change' and the like as sites that use evidence, as opposed to the wild speculation of the official explanation.

If you were trying to make people's research easier then you would also refer them to other sites, such as http://911research.wtc7.net which puts the other side of the argument. Consequently people could consider the two sides of the argument and come to their own conclusions.

I know I have...

[accuman]

Originally Posted by bartonbank

No you are not, accuman, you have shown your partiality by referring to 'Loose change' and the like as sites that use evidence, as opposed to the wild speculation of the official explanation.

If you were trying to make people's research easier then you would also refer them to other sites, such as http://911research.wtc7.net which puts the other side of the argument. Consequently people could consider the two sides of the argument and come to their own conclusions.

I know I have...

If you actually read my posts you would realise just how wrong you are...

My second post in the thread was about loose change...

That seems to be the most popular video out there, which is good in a way because it is effective in getting people to realise there are so many unanswered questions. However, the problems with the video are numerous, mainly all the pentagon and flight 93 info, which is basically wild speculation presented as fact. Here is a very good sceptics guide...

http://911research.wtc7.net/reviews/...nge/index.html