Is this good or bad?

[Osesame]

Big Brother is watching loo

Neil Millard And Amanda Thomas
Croydon Advertiser
Friday June 15, 2007

IT sounds like something out of Big Brother - the Advertiser can reveal that CCTV cameras are filming punters in two pubs' toilets.
The Skylark, in South Croydon, and the Ship of Fools, in West Croydon, have both recently installed cameras in the loos to clamp down on antisocial behaviour.
Unapologetic pub chiefs say the cameras have already had a dramatic effect on cutting vandalism and drug abuse and that these benefits outweigh any concerns about loss of privacy.
Kim McKay, a manager at the Skylark, in South End, said the number of people turfed out by staff had plummeted as a result.
The 27-year-old, who has worked at the pub since October, said: "Unfortunately, there is a lot of drug use among youngsters today."It's a good idea. I know people think it invades their privacy,but the cameras are situated so we only see what we need to see.
"We have had a lot of comments from regulars. They don't like it, which is understandable,but they do understand why it's there."
The pub has even lowered the height of cubicle doors so that people's faces can be seen as they come out.
Staff can follow any customers acting suspiciously as there is only a few seconds delay before footage hits a monitor in the pub's office.
At the moment the cameras are only in the male toilets,but soon they will be in the female loos too.
This is with good reason as Kim has had to kick out three women drug users since October.
One was snorting cocaine off a toilet roll holder and two were snorting it off toilet seats.
The Ship of Fools put in CCTV first and deputy manager Peter Walsh said they have already proved a sound investment since being installed in both the male and female loos.
Peter,39, said: "They have done exactly what they're supposed to.There was minor drug use and violence which the cameras have completely stopped. We did have doormen, which we now don't need."
Peter doesn't think there is anything sinister about the cameras.
He said: "The cameras don't actually intrude into private areas.I had a gentleman standing at the bar saying it infringed on his civil liberties,but it doesn't.
"It isn't anywhere near the urinals and the cubicle doors are closed."
There was mixed opinion from pub regulars at the Skylark this week.
Clive Pereira, 49, a plumber from Thornton Heath who has drunk at the Skylark for four years,believes the cameras are a good thing.
"I don't think it's an invasion of privacy," he said. "They're a precautionary measure. If you're not up to any mischief then you have got nothing to worry about.
"It's safe and secure and it stops people doing drugs and vandalism.
"There isn't one bolted to every loo door, it's just a general panoramic view."
But another regular countered: "It's an intrusion on personal privacy. I can understand it will stop drug abuse,but it's a matter of principle."

[Jonesy Knows]

I'm sure this should not be allowed as it is an invasion of privacy!
If I was a regular I would seek legal advice on this as if it was acceptable by law, most pubs, clubs and casino's would have them installed.
I am not supporting drug taking or anti-social behaviour, however if the Management of any licenced establishment has any doubts towards an individual then they are within their rights to bar them!
CCTV in toilets are unacceptable, and if the law allows this then what is stopping CCTV in sunbed shops, Gymn changing rooms etc...

[Cassius Marcellus]

CCTV in toilets?

Already been done, mate. On telly earlier in the week, a school in Northampton IIRC. All doors have been taken down to the floor and up to the ceiling for privacy. A CCTV is in use at the corridor end of the room above the entrance door. All urinals have been removed, it is now a unisex toilet.

The result is that nobody congregates in the toilets anymore, there is less bullying as the CCTV sees everything, and it's a lot cleaner as well.

The kids who were interviewed said it was a good idea.

[Ell Ess Dee]

Originally Posted by Osesame

"It isn't anywhere near the urinals and the cubicle doors are closed."

So how is it catching people doing drugs?

[Jonesy Knows]

I'm sure if somebody challenged the person who installed the CCTV then by law it is an invasion of privacy and they would have to be removed!
"Brings a whole new meaning to not having a pot to piss in"!

[AJ]

If don't you know that htey are there, then invasion of privacy, sure.

If you're aware of them, and they're not hidden and you freely choose to use them I don't see the problem