Christening your kids

[AJ]

Why would a new born need to be cleansed?

Not a catholic i see Carl.

Answer to that one is simple, Orginal sin. We are all born sinful and dirty, until accepted into the church and saved by christ.

Crock of sh it really, I've not been christened, niether did my dad, nor will my son who was one last week.

[Big Andy]

Originally Posted by Big Andy

Both of mine were christened I think before they were 2 years old.

It was most definitely my mrs influence because i'm quite ignorant to many things Christian and different religions as a whole so if it were left to me, probably neither of them would be christened today.

I did fail to mention quite a relevent point in my first post. That being my wife is a Christian and our children weren't Christened just "because", but they were Christened for the right reasons. I know my wife will attempt to instill Christian values etc, but the critical element for me is, it'll be done without attempting to brainwash our kids and I know that. They'll still decide as to whether they want to be Christians when they grow up. It's not as if they've been branded for life just because they've been baptised. So yeah, baptism is right if done for the right reasons, but for it just to be done for the sheer sake of it, is quite frankly a waste of everybodys time.

[mowgli77]

I can respect the fact that we live in a Christian country and have no problem with christian values but I think it's all a load of fiction. You will find the bible in the fiction section of the library. I think someone found it, read it and thought that's how it was, accepted it and lived their life by it.

If you are sinful, get over it and move on, You don't need to go to church for the rest of your life to beg forgiveness. I just think the church is a money making establishment that wants you to feel guilty and pay your way into heaven.
(as seen in the genesis video for Jesus he knows me )

Big Andy said:

baptism is right if done for the right reasons, but for it just to be done for the sheer sake of it, is quite frankly a waste of everybodys time

If done for the right reasons not a problem but my mate's sister got her daughter christened just so she could go to a catholic school which has a better reputation and results than the other local schools available. Seems like selling your kids soul to God so they can have a better education.

[cavelloman]

"Like you say Mowgli, I now leave it to be there decision when they grow up, No more haveing it drumed into them like it was to me."

By that age they will have been corrupted by the values of modern hedonistic values, mammom, capitalist advertising, modern liberal values taught at secular schools etc etc. We are having values drumed into us night and day and I would consider then mostly morally inferior to the values coming from an ordinary religious home. Even in non religious home surely moral and ethical values must be discusses and will/should be instilled into our children. Many of the present problems in our society stem from parents!! unwlling to provide a moral framework for thieir offspring and negate responsibilty to the rest of society.

"Give me the child until he is seven and I will give you the man" (Jesuit maxim)

With respect to christianing there are 4 views

Nothing. Christians need not bother with the physical sign of baptism if they experience the spiritual grace. Spirit-baptism is the fulfilment of the ceremony of water-baptism. This view is taken by churches which do not practice sacraments, such as the Quakers (Society of Friends) and Salvation Army.
· An expression of obedience to Jesus, and as such is desirable but not essential: it is a sign which symbolises an underlying reality but has no actual effect. This view is called Zwinglian (after Zwingli 1484-1531) or Baptist (but many Baptist theologians are closer to the Reformed view). One of the main points of baptism on this view is that it is a witness to others of one’s personal decision to follow Christ.

· It is a sign and seal, effecting what it signifies in the context of faith. This is the Reformed or Covenant view, held by the Church of England (in the 39 Articles of Religion in the Book of Common Prayer) and the Presbyterian Westminster Confession. “In the context of faith” means that the New Testament’s language of efficacy (e.g. Romans 6:4, 1 Peter 3:21) is correctly applied to those who trust in Jesus for themselves. · it does what it says it does, actually making someone a Christian. This is called the “Catholic” or “Ex opere operato” view. (These Latin words mean it works by virtue of having been performed correctly.).

[Valiant23]

---

"Like you say Mowgli, I now leave it to be there decision when they grow up, No more haveing it drumed into them like it was to me."

By that age they will have been corrupted by the values of modern hedonistic values, mammom, capitalist advertising, modern liberal values taught at secular schools etc etc.

Thats a fair point Cavelloman, but surely that's a socialogical indoctrination that allows a child to have some kind of integration into society, rather than a corruption?

We are having values drumed into us night and day and I would consider then mostly morally inferior to the values coming from an ordinary religious home. Even in non religious home surely moral and ethical values must be discusses and will/should be instilled into our children. Many of the present problems in our society stem from parents!! unwlling to provide a moral framework for thieir offspring and negate responsibilty to the rest of society.

I totally agree that many of the problems with kids stem from the parents, but this has nothing at all to do with religious values, or a lack of them, but rather another socialogical problem.

The fact is that nothing is anybody's fault anymore. I know that this is true because if you want to live this way then the do-gooders in Govt will make every provision for you to do so.


"Give me the child until he is seven and I will give you the man"

As well as it being a Jesuit Maxim, there was a paper written by a psychologist who claimed that he too could 'program' a child for life by the age of 9.

Personally I think thats rubbish. I have made some mistakes in my life, and they are my own fault, not my parents. They can only do so much.

As Pocket Lady has said, we aren't religious but we try to be good people and teach our kids to do the same. Our kids are complimented on the manners and respect they show.

Would being religious make them better people? I personally doubt it.

[cavelloman]

No Mr V

But if children from old fashion religious homes don't generally behave or achieve more. Why do so many "non believers" want to send their children to these faith schools?

[Pocket Lady]

Because these schools tend to extract the best exam results.

[Valiant23]

Originally Posted by cavelloman

No Mr V

But if children from old fashion religious homes don't generally behave or achieve more. Why do so many "non believers" want to send their children to these faith schools?

Originally Posted by Pocket Lady

Because these schools tend to extract the best exam results.

Which in turn is because (imo) there is more attention paid to discipline, and once they get their 'little darlings' in there they the parents will move heaven and earth in order to keep em in there.

Even going to such extreme measures as supporting School's disciplinary process.

You could also argue that the kind of parent's who care so much about their kid's getting a good schooling would also bring up their kid's to be good people regardless...


(Sorry Mowgli for hi-jacking this thread mate)

[Pobby]

Going against the grain here, but yes I have had my two boys Christened and will have the baby due in March also Christened.

The reason is I am a practicing Catholic, and without getting into doctrine I am accepting a responsibility to teach them the practice of the faith. I won't attempt to indocrinate them and they will be free to live their lives as they wish - having said that if they ever contemplate supporting Arsenal they will be excommunicated.

I was brought up as a Catholic as were most of my mates, most of them are what you might term lapsed, I'm not.

I don't really want to get into a debate on it as it will go nowhere, but the question was asked and I've answered it.

[mowgli77]

Originally Posted by Pobby

Going against the grain here, but yes I have had my two boys Christened and will have the baby due in March also Christened.

The reason is I am a practicing Catholic, and without getting into doctrine I am accepting a responsibility to teach them the practice of the faith. I won't attempt to indocrinate them and they will be free to live their lives as they wish - having said that if they ever contemplate supporting Arsenal they will be excommunicated.

I was brought up as a Catholic as were most of my mates, most of them are what you might term lapsed, I'm not.

I don't really want to get into a debate on it as it will go nowhere, but the question was asked and I've answered it.

That's fair enough mate, it's done for the right reasons and you won't be a hypocrite in doing so.

Mr V wrote:

(Sorry Mowgli for hi-jacking this thread mate)

No problem at all, nothing better than a good debate. The psychologist and the child all comes back to the nature/nurture debate that runs through eveything in Psychology.