Trading & Associated Software

[RacingCol]

Hi Guys,

Trading on Betfair is something I have been interested in for quite a while now but I've never really had the time to look into it - well, now I'm making some time!

I understand the basic principles of trading but I'd like to learn more about whats involved, the mechanics, the best markets etc - so firstly does anyone know of any "leraning" resources that would be useful to a beginner?

Secondly, can anyone suggest any software that is good for a beginner? I got an e-mail recently about a product called Bet-IT (can supply the link if anyone wants) - anyone had any experience with it at all?

Anything anyone can offer is appreciated.

Colin

[Lasso50]

Hi RacingCol,
I don't have the link, but there's a forum especially for Betfair Users and it should help you to learn a lot about trading and markets.
Concerning the tool - I guess you mean Bet IE? - I would say it's a great tool for special purposes. I use it to wager on horse races. The tool helps me to see where the money goes and who are the favourites. Besides that the more important thing is following point.
Lets say I have a race with 10 horses und 4 have rather low quotes and six are outsiders. I now tell Bet IE how much money I want to wager, select my horses and Bet IE puts within seconds the amounts on every horse, so I get the same money back. So it doesn't matter which horse of my selected ones win, the money I earn is equal on every horse.
I didn't test Bet IE for other purposes, but this works perfectly for me.
And what I like, too.
If you have questions or problems you get great support.
Hope I could help you a bit and wish you a nice Sunday.

[RacingCol]

Hi Lasso - yes I did mean Bet-IE. It seems to have some powerful claims with regards to the trading elements of the software, which really interested me.

I will check out the Betfair forum to see what info I can see.

Cheers.

[quizbuff2000]

Originally Posted by RacingCol

Hi Lasso - yes I did mean Bet-IE. It seems to have some powerful claims with regards to the trading elements of the software, which really interested me.

I will check out the Betfair forum to see what info I can see.

Cheers.

I'm considering buying this software too, so I'd be keen to know how good it is in terms of 'greening up' and stop loss.

[Datapunter]

I understand the basic principles of trading but I'd like to learn more about whats involved, the mechanics, the best markets etc - so firstly does anyone know of any "leraning" resources that would be useful to a beginner?

Quite a "loaded" question

No, i don't really know of any resources to learn how to trade.
At least there is some stuff out there but i wouldn't exactly call those a learning resource. I'm afraid, mainly by the nature of trading, you are pretty much on your own.

From my own experiance:
1) Completely ignory anything from the Betfair forums, don't even go there. Those forums are full of people who give nothing about their fellow punters and would rather stick a knife in your back than give you any usefull info. ( few exceptions but they are extremely hard to find )

2) The act of "trading" itself is extremely simple.
You either combine bets on multiple markets to ensure a profit all around or,
you Back/Lay or Lay/Back the same market in a short period of time inorder to secure a profit withing that period of time.

That's it and that's all it is.

Step 1 would be to simply get your head around the mathematics of that. Just try out all sorts of different variations to the theme, use excell to work out the numbers, get grounded, practice, make absolutely sure you understand the market maths.

Step 2 would be to select a single trading technique. JUST ONE. And try it out in real life, with real prices, at minimal stakes. Try it for a given number of trades and stick to your choosen strategy. Ignore completely how you do, profit or loss. You are not interested in that when you first start. Once you've done your pre-defined number of trades the question is this: did you actually manage to stick to your choosen strategy ?

If the answer is yes, then you are in with a chance. But it will most likely be no. Any trading technique can only be sucessfull if it has a foundation of discipline. You may think that's obvious and in a way it is, that doesn't mean it's easy to implement.

If you've actually gone all over the place in stead of sticking to the choosen strategy, regardless of results remember, think twice about getting into trading.

Step 3 , when you think you have a profitable strategy and you think you can master the discipline: practice, practice, practice. There is nothing more to it than that. Every trader will have a strategy that is different, personal. You can have the greatest trading technique in the world but if you as a person cannot make it work it's useless. This is mainly a matter of timing. Different people have a different "feel" for timing. If you want to use a technique invented by someone else then practice,practice,practice untill you know the timing of that technique suits you personally.

Step 4 , supporting software.
Personally i don't use any. My current trading strategies don't require any. In fact you should'nt look into it until you actually have a successfull technique. No software is going to make you successfull in trading, none of it. But if you are successfull on your own then there is software that can support you. Go to the Betfair "Solutions" pages and pick the package that seems most appropriate for what you do. ( not the other way around )

This also means i can't give you any specific advice on trading software so others may have a different view and their advice may be equally valid based on theire experiances.

Last but not least a piece of advice.
If there is any advice i can give you from my own experiance it is to learn how to take a loss. I'm making a profit these days but i have had some hard lessons along the way. ( i.e. big losses ) There are many factors contributing to successfull trading and for me the biggest one is to learn how to get out in time and take a loss. When things go tits up, take it on the chin, switch to damage control, take a loss and get out. Live to fight another day

Good luck

( i mainly trade tennis in-play btw )

[aldric]

If you are interested in trying out some betting software for free to see how you get on with trading, do a google search for gruss software (betting assistant).

I am sure there is no problem mentioning that software on here?

Aldric

[Datapunter]

aldric, when people post about commercially available software i always look at the intention of the poster.

If the intention is to advertise then you are likely to get yourself banned.

If however the intention is to contribute to the topic of the thread there usually is no problem.

In this case the Gruss software has been around for a while and plenty Betfair users have used it to great satisfaction. So i see no reason why it can't be mentioned. Site is : http://www.gruss-software.co.uk

Betfair has a page listing various software vendors: http://solutions.betfair.com/


Please note that Punters Lounge has no affiliation with any of the forementioned products

[aldric]

Thanks Datapunter,

I was making efforts to contribute to the discussion as I don't see why somoene should pay for software when there is quality software out there for free.

I wish everyone good luck with the trading

[RacingCol]

Hi DP,

Thanks very much for the informitive reply, very much apreciated. I think I have a long way to go.....!

I'll take your advice about developing trading ideas and play around to see what suits me.

Your comment on the Betfair forum surprised me. Although I've never actually been on there yet (never had the chance) I thought forums were for helping others and sharing ideas! Think I'll stick to good old PL

Colin

[RacingCol]

Originally Posted by aldric

Thanks Datapunter,

I was making efforts to contribute to the discussion as I don't see why somoene should pay for software when there is quality software out there for free

Indeed - and appreciated

[Datapunter]

Your comment on the Betfair forum surprised me. Although I've never actually been on there yet (never had the chance) I thought forums were for helping others and sharing ideas!

Man are you in for a surprise

[Dale Cooper]

I get confused when it comes to the maths side of things. Say I lay Team A before a game for 1.5 for €100. They start off slowly, but I think they'll end up winning. I back them at half time at 2.20. Is there a way to know quickly what price you should be backing them at? Like some formula pre-made in excel?

Thanks.

[tipstar]

I get confused when it comes to the maths side of things. Say I lay Team A before a game for 1.5 for €100. They start off slowly, but I think they'll end up winning. I back them at half time at 2.20. Is there a way to know quickly what price you should be backing them at? Like some formula pre-made in excel?

(lay price x lay stake)/back price

ie
1.5 x 100= 150
150/2.2 = 68.18

so if the bet wins you get 68.18 x 2.2= 149.99 minus your stake of 68.18
= 81.81
your lay liability is 50
81.81-50 = 31.81 profit

assuming you pay 5% commission then you multiply 31.81 x .95 = 30.22 profit locked in.

[Dale Cooper]

Thanks for the reply.

Thought I had the hang of it, used this calculator a good few times last night and it was really helpful - http://www.chromaweb.com/bets/calculator.cfm

But I seemingly have made a mistake now. Backed something at 1.71 for 20. Then backed it again for the same amount in running at 1.61. But it got to the stage where I wanted to stop the rot - odds were drifting big time on my selection. Typed all the necessary details in to the calculator, and I had a loss of roughly 7 and 8 on each selection. So I thought my total liability for the event would be -15 (rather than the possible -40).

But on looking at the two selections now, it has -1.96 under one player, and -36.11 under the player I backed.

What did I do wrong?

[tipstar]

did u lay it or back it @ 1.71 ?

did you lay it or back it @ 1.61 ?

[Dale Cooper]

Two seperate bets, backed at both those prices.

[tipstar]

If you backed the same player then you have a loss of 40 if he loses or
20 x 1.71 & 20 x 1.61 if he wins.
Check your account statement to make sure you did lay by accident

[Dale Cooper]

No, I backed him twice, then layed him twice if you get me?

[tipstar]

so you backed him @ 1.71
then backed him again @ 1.61
at this point it goes tits up and you decide to cut your losses and lay.
You never mentioned that in your other post.
The numbers make sense now
When your bets went tits up you laid to cut your losses @ a higher price than you backed @ making you go red up (negative) instead of green up.
If the other player wins youve cut your losses and you only lose 1.96.
But the amount you had to lay puts you 36.11 in the red if your player turns it round and ends up winning.

[Dale Cooper]

But it got to the stage where I wanted to stop the rot - odds were drifting big time on my selection.

Sorry, probably should have made it clearer.

I know what you mean about the two red figures showing your loss. But when I layed it first I was sure the amount under the two players was equal (i.e. 15 and 15). Could this have possibly changed?