Paddy power question - as im not too sure what i did!!!!

[drawback05]

I don’t know if its possible to beg people to boycott a bookmakers, but if not, then please feel free to remove this comment, and I apologise in advance. My reason for frustration is that Paddy Power’s have stated in an e-mail to me that their logs are stating that I cancelled a bet in the Euro2008 tournament, and that their logs never lie, thereby calling me a liar. They have sent me what they say is a breakdown of my transactions with them on that day in particular, and here are the highlights ! I can reproduce the entire list, but am checking with PP to ensure that I’m not breaking any of their ‘rules’ by doing so.
Here is their reply “From the logs, it would appear that after the second price change you deleted the selection from the betslip. Unfortunately, these logs are correct and in situations such as this we need to stand by what the logs tell us. This bet was never placed and confirmed on your account and no notification of a confirmed bet was made on your account. If you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact us. “
As a background I should explain that PP have changed their betting slip which rightly messed me up, as each price change was forced onto the screen to be accepted which slowed the bet down. I have omitted the stake here as I don’t want any of you crying on my behalf, but let me say that it was substantial. To summarise, I tried to get on at all prices from 13/10 to 17/10 and they say that I cancelled the bet !!! They way Spain were hockeying Russia that was never on my mind and although not recorded in their logs, Spain actually scored a third goal, and when my screen came back it said “Handicap changed to -3”, not anything about customer cancelling bets.
What I don’t like is the gap between 18:31 and 18:37 which is where they say that I had a change of mind, despite David Villa missing 2 chances in that time and Spain putting Russia proverbially to the sword. I have been told that there is nothing I can do because the logs are gospel, even though they do not mirror the truth. To say that I am sick doesn’t even go close, and the reason I am most upset is because I was denied a winning bet, and am being portrayed as a liar by PP even though I am not.
Critically, at 18:37:07 I chose > 06/10-18:37:07.678 [04] <124:0628:20194650> ::SB_bet::req_init(0) for action "GoBetConfirmChanges"
And then at 18:37:35 I ‘chose’ > 06/10-18:37:35.484 [04] <145:0368:20194650> ::SB_bet::req_init(0) for action "GoBetDelete"
That 28 seconds is where they are saying that I cancelled the bet I spent 10 minutes trying to place !!!!!!!!!
As a sickener, I then threw the stake money away on the later match, foolishly trying to win back the cash I thought should have been mine, but that is really the only stupid thing I did. Everything else was correct, but they will not admit to it. Even if you don’t boycott Paddy Powers at least learn from my lesson to make sure that in Betting In Running, you don’t get cheated. If you are winning small and then bet big and “win”, be careful that your “bet” doesn’t come up with this handy phrase “Customer deleted selection from bet slip”. Handy for the bookie that is !!

And now the science bit.
Customer attempted to place bet on Spain, Handicap Betting, Handicap
> Value -2, price 7/5, stake x when logging in:
> Customer had insufficient funds, deposit needed:
> 06/10-18:26:18.851 [04] <050:0318:20194650> ::SB_bet::req_init(0) for action "go_bir_livebetting"
> 06/10-18:26:18.855 [04] <050:0318:20194650>
> ::SB_bet::_get_betslip_cookies: Found leg cookie
Customer made a deposit for x, deposit successful:
> 06/10-18:29:40.554 [04] <015:0103:20194650> ::SB_bet::req_init(0) for
> action "DoBetslipDeposit"
> 06/10-18:29:40.619 [04] <015:0103:20194650> ==>get_all_avail_cpm_ids
> txn_type=DEP
> -cc_pmt_upd_pmt- with args: 39767418 Y {} {} Y 082577 ACCEPTED
> Customer attempted to place bet on Spain, Handicap Betting, Handicap
> Value -2, price 7/5, stake x, price change on selection:
> 06/10-18:29:53.628 [04] <113:0027:20194650> ::SB_bet::req_init(0) for
> BS_BET_LEG_ERROR_TITLE
> 06/10-18:29:53.659 [04] <113:0027:20194650> SB_bet: overrides = {LEG 0 PRC_CHG}
> 06/10-18:29:53.660 [03] <113:002Handicap Betting7:20194650>
> SB_bet::add_error: adding BET_LEG_OVERRIDE_TITLE
> Customer confirmed the price changes:
> 06/10-18:30:59.165 [04] <167:0040:20194650> ::SB_bet::req_init(0) for action "GoBetConfirmChanges"
> Customer attempted to place bet on Spain, Handicap Betting, Handicap
> Value -2, price 17/10, stake x, bet failed to be placed due to price change on selection:
> 06/10-18:31:51.225 [04] <112:0244:20194650> ::SB_bet::req_init(0) for action "GoBetPlace"
> 06/10-18:31:51.226 [04] <112:0244:20194650>
> 06/10-18:31:51.255 [03] <112:0244:20194650> SB_bet::add_error: adding
> BET_LEG_OVERRIDE_TITLE
> 06/10-18:31:51.279 [03] <112:0244:20194650> END 0.073 GoBetPlace
> Customer went to confirm price change:
> 06/10-18:37:07.678 [04] <124:0628:20194650> ::SB_bet::req_init(0) for action "GoBetConfirmChanges"
> BET_LEG_OVERRIDE_TITLE
> 06/10-18:37:07.718 [03] <124:0628:20194650> END 0.117 GoBetConfirmChanges
> Customer deleted selection from bet slip:
> 06/10-18:37:35.484 [04] <145:0368:20194650> ::SB_bet::req_init(0) for action "GoBetDelete"
> 06/10-18:37:35.490 [03] <145:0368:20194650> END 0.086
> GoBetDeleteHandicap Betting
> No bet placed and no receipt shown.

[ordinarysunday]

Ok firstly it is best not to be so confrontational about things, if the logs say one thing and you say another, then the harsh reality is probably that the logs are correct.

I haven't read your post fully, or read the logs as of yet, mainly because it makes me dizzy - but I would assume that the way this firm extracts these logs would be the exact same way that the company I work for does. These logs once produced are ''judge and jury'' basically, they simply reproduce what your exact session was, what you were offered, what you clicked etc, they are not something that someone makes up etc, they are supposed to be 100% what actually happened.

If the logs they have provided you with are not clear in your opinion, then phone them up. I have seen many occasions whereby an IT guy has sent us some logs which are all just gobbly gook, make them show you clear logs, ones that you understand and are clear about.

Remember also, it is one thing to call a person a liar, and a totally different thing to call someone mistaken.

[slapdash]

Originally Posted by ordinarysunday

Remember also, it is one thing to call a person a liar, and a totally different thing to call someone mistaken.

I was trying to think of a good way to say that.

[friskyfitz]

Ok - I know somebody in PP who is high up and I'll get him to look at it but before I do, but I have one or two questions!!

Its live betting and I see there were at least 3 price chages - not unusual in live betting.... however, i see that the logs say that after 3 attempts that you then voided the selection (Thats how I see it)

It looks to me as you tried to place a bet and couldn't because of price changes and then got pissed off and voided it - Im not saying this is what happened but thats how it looks!!!!



Can you please tell us " EXATLY" what happened?

[friskyfitz]

Ive also changed the title of the thread as its mis-leading......

[drawback05]

Fair enough guys, but the reason i had the original heading was that i know that at no point did i cancel the bet. the reason I am also peed off is that it looks like exactly what friskyfitz says, i.e. that I voided the bet. The person who knows someone high up in PP's will be able to know that i have had bets of this magnitude go down before and have never ever commented on them because i made a bet and I lost. In this case I made the bet and they are saying it never placed. What most concerns me is that the only change that occured that would have disallowed the bet was that Spain scored a third goal and that the handicap changed to -3, but that is not reflected in these 'oh so accurate' logs. I work in IT and i know all about logs, and also what can be done to them if required. To compound things I get these e-mails saying Dear Jarlath,


If you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact us.

Kind Regards,


I've received at least 4 of these now, which look like some automated rubbish just guaranteed to rile me further !! As I've said, i have lost bigger than this before, but I know that at no point did I void the bet. I had been trying for 10 minutes to get on !!

[slapdash]

I don't know the mechanics of in-running betting on PP, but what the log suggests to me is that possibly you "accepted" the revised odds but then didn't make a bet at those odds. Do you have to perform more than one action when the odds have changed in order to make a bet at the new odds?

Then, a few minutes later, where it says you "cancelled" the bet, that may not mean that you actually made a decision to cancel it (if you'd already made the bet, presumably you wouldn't be allowed to cancel it anyway). Maybe you just closed the pop-up window, thinking you'd made the bet, but actually it was still waiting for you to place the bet, and that action is recorded in the log as "customer cancels bet".

Is that possible?

[ordinarysunday]

The main point here is that you genuinely wanted to place this bet, and for whatever reason/s, the bet was not placed.

In my opinion the best chance you will have of getting paid in any form, is to state that you can appreciate what the logs appear to show, and almost accept that you may be mistaken (not lying), but to re-iterate that the logs also confirm what bet you were definitely trying to place at that time. If you have no previous issues of anything similar then I would hope that common sense may become an option. I am aware that Paddypower recently changed their bet slip procedure, so there will obviously be ''teething'' problems with such things.

Hopefully Fitz will help you out, I'm quite sure that if the story is as it appears, then you will get some kind of squeeze and rightfully so.

Try not to take things so personally though, remember, there was a good chance that in amongst your frustration of trying to place the bet you wanted to, that you may have done what the logs suggested you did. I would be totally shocked if someone within the industry ever dared to falsify logs, simply as that should never happen.

You have basically made a big fuss about being called a liar, when you haven't been, and then used the term freely to call other people liars, people who don't have the option on here of defending themselves - apologies if I am mistaken but that's how it appears to me.

All said and done, I hope you get some form of payment or comp sir.

[drawback05]

All points here by you guys are well made, and yes, I am utterly frustrated. The reason I used the strong term 'liar' was because I know that if a video recorder was perched on my shoulder, at no point did I cancel the bet.
And at no point do the logs demonstrate that when Spain scored their third goal the handicap market changed, and I certainly wasn't going to back Spain at -3, and no, before you ask, I did not cancel a bet then !!
Yes, there is a new betslip, and yes, it is a factor in the problems I had, but on the website it says that is it better - I will be interested to see if they show us what feedback they are getting on it.
Oh, and I didn't cancel a bet
But thanks for the support - and I really hope none of you ever go through this !

[friskyfitz]

Ok - Dont shoot the messenger here...

It appears that you DID void the selection on your slip! maybe not intentionally but if you were offered a price and you did not like THAT price then you simply clicked the "X" at the top right hand of the page ???? and hoped to re-set the bet at a different price - Ive been through the logs and thats the only conclusion I/We can come up with!!! Without your login details and password then I cant go any further and I hope you understand that!! BTW - dont PM me any details as its out of my reach... Let them get back to me but I fear it will be the same result!

[friskyfitz]

Now,

I know this wont do me any favours but why didnt you use betfair for live betting ????

There are so many massive price differences....

I dont know why all punters dont use it to their advantage - I HAD to use PP for a bet on tonights match - I backed 6 or more goals (anyone who knows my betting patterns will understand) I got 15/1....On betfair I could have got 26.00 or 28.00 after only 130 seconds!!!! Madness to live bet with a regular institution in these circumstance!

[drawback05]

Ah well, i will just put it down to bitter experience and maintain my existence telling people not to support PPs.
I know what the logs say, but I do know I didn't hit the big X in the corner as i was mad keen to get this bet on ! C'est la vie i suppose, but what an expensive lesson to learn about their new 'improved' betslip. no food until august now i'm afraid