House Edge in Blackjack

[daftpegasus]

I know this probably isn't the right place for this thread but I'm not sure exactly where it would fit on PL so feel free to move it if necessary.

Anyway I was wondering where the house edge is in Blackjack.

I can see it easily in roulette, 37/38 numbers on the table and they only pay out 36/1 winnings. But in Blackjack the house plays to exact rules. If you play to exactly the same rules then surely over time you'd be equal. Add to this the fact that you get 3/2 when you get Blackjack and the house doesn't then surely the edge swings in your favour?

BF have a game called Zero Blackjack where you get 3/2 for BJ, 2/1 for suited BJ and 2/1 for 5 a card 21. Now the Zero bit means that there's no house edge. So what is in the house's favour that evens things out?

[Punto Banco]

I am not familiar on the specifics but i do know that there are a number of different rules in Blackjack that alter the house edge...

For example:

1. If the dealer takes a face down 2nd card the house edge increases

2. If the dealer hits/stands on soft 17

3. If you can re split... re splits favour the player

4. Rules on doubling down... doubling down whenever favours player

5. Insurance... 2/1 bad odds mostly (I don't know but may be worth it holding 20)

6. Side games (I know the casino I work at Star city has "Perfect Pairs" aq bet based on a players cards coming the same card either 'mixed', 'coloured' or 'perfect'... paying 5/1, 10/1 and 30/1 respectively... absolutely shocking odds yet because of 30/1 payout everybody plays it)

7. If you are payed on blackjack instantly or whether dealers cards must be checked

8. Multiple decks and Auto shufflers (While these don't increase house advantage as such they make it impossible for they player to "find" an edge)

9. Muppets betting like donks splitting 55 vs dealer 10... I SAW THIS REALLY HAPPEN... I just shook my head as I was walking by...

... thats all I can remember for now... sorry I couldn't fully answer your question... I am sure somebody knows this in depth... I have a mate that knows everything about the game... stats and all...


Edit: Also and it's a big one... player acts before the dealer and can therefore bust before dealer can... this is essentially where the house edge is derived from...

[daftpegasus]

Originally Posted by MaKDaddYSportsBET

Edit: Also and it's a big one... player acts before the dealer and can therefore bust before dealer can... this is essentially where the house edge is derived from...

Thanks for the great answer. I need some time to fully understand and appreciate all the information you've given. With reference to the bit quoted I can see that this is the big edge online.

In a casino with say 6 players. If one player busts and the others hold their hands, and then the dealer plays and busts too. Does the bust player lose their bet? or is it a draw?

[GotaFancy?]

If blackjack is break even odds for the house, then that is break even, assuming you play perfect blackjack strategy - if you play perfectly you get your money back - every time you deviate from perfection (I dont imagine everyone plays perfectly ) you lose.....

[daftpegasus]

I take it you're not a fan

[GotaFancy?]

Hehe - I'm not a fan of any casino games - they're not positive ev - you cannot win (ok - you may be able to win by card counting in blackjack but you wont get away with it for long or for much, even if you do it well - I suspect most card counters do it poorly and still have negative ev) - you'll never outwit a casino, especially as an individual...

You might find the "Breaking Vegas" documentary interesting - if a team of the brightest "geeks" from MIT fail, what chance do we have?

Much prefer poker where you only have to outwit the other donkeys on your table

[Paul Ross]

Take a look here also www.wizardofodds.com/blackjack

[dudeman99]

If no commission, then it is truly a break even proposition over the long run.

They must rely on muppets having a punt without not knowing anything about optimal play to generate their profits.

I recall studies showing that, when people were faced with 100% expectation wagers, they tend more often than not to lose cash.

[GotaFancy?]

Originally Posted by dudeman99

They must rely on muppets having a punt without not knowing anything about optimal play to generate their profits.

If it's a break even propostition, then there are no profits - you play perfectly to break even - every mistake (however small) that you make costs you money and generates a loss.....

[slapdash]

Originally Posted by daftpegasus

In a casino with say 6 players. If one player busts and the others hold their hands, and then the dealer plays and busts too. Does the bust player lose their bet? or is it a draw?

He loses. The fact that the house always wins when you and the house
both bust is why there's a house edge. If not for that, a player would have
a big advantage over the house, since the dealer has to play by fixed rules
that force him to play "badly".

[dudeman99]

Originally Posted by GotaFancy?

If it's a break even propostition, then there are no profits - you play perfectly to break even - every mistake (however small) that you make costs you money and generates a loss.....

"They" in my original post referring to Betfair. They certainly would not offer games that cost them money to run if the games didn't generate any profit for them.

[koochak]

DaftPegasus, the biggest advantage for the house against the punter comes from the fact that if both the dealer and the player bust, the dealer wins. 3/2 payout on BJ goes some way towards re-balancing that but still the house has an advantage. Also, playing your hand to the same rules as the dealer isn't the best. You must follow what is known as the Basic Strategy. Even then you are up against an expectation of around -1%. To have a positive expectation you must follow a card counting strategy. However, if the casino uses a continuous shuffle machine then card counting won't work.