VC Poker- The conspiracy theory

[Markpl1]

Now i signed up with these recently and have been trying to get my action point bonus. Now after playing for a quite a while all I can say is if there isn't slight bias towards straights and flushes on their card generator then Im imagining things.

Well I hear you call. Why would they do this? To get a good rake from cash games what are normally highest pots won by. Yes you guessed it straights and flushes. It is not a coincedence that alot of people on the site comment on this and alot have had their chat suspended due to the management.

Yes I am bitter about the amount of timez I have been outdrawn and will no longer play there once my current balance is gone. I am turning a healthy profit at the other sites I play.

This is sour grapes but it is more than chance imo. I am generally not a sore loser but this just takes the mick. Anybody else had this experience?

[Jezza]

Hi Mark,

There is a lot of flack aimed at VC from a lot of people and personally I think it is heartily deserved in a lot of areas but not so in others, I will relate you my experiences/thoughts on them.

I would say the card generator is random - yes there are a lot of outdraws/bad beats but this is poker for you. The beats happen everywhere and of course since online poker lends itself to over 70hands an hr you see a lot more bad beats than you do in a live poker game as you are getting twice as many hands in!
The fact of the matter is online poker is generating a HUGE amount of money for these companys, they have absolutely no need to risk it on "fixed" RNG's especially not a well established company like VC. My flatmate (who is also an online poker pro) made 2/4 NL hold em is home on VC for months and months logging many hours of play - he turned a decent profit and any short term bad results you are having there are purely the volatility of poker and not to do with fixed RNG's (of course this is my opinion but I am 100% sure it is fact). Whenever we lose money online gambling it is human nature to say we lost because it was fixed and not bad luck but these days you have absolutely no need to be dealing with any company who isnt trustworthy in that department and I would say VC are.

Interestingly enough for the conspiracy theorists if you do some research you will see they say they were awarded a BMM certificate of the RNG's fairness, but delve deeper and actually try to view the original certificate at BMM's site issued to the tribeca poker network (VC and its skins) you will get an ERROR 404 file not found (supposedly it is here http://www.bmm.com.au/certification/...rtificate.html )


As for the chat ban I agree they are idiotic to do this it only leads to more bad press - I actually got chat banned there the other month! Basically I was playing in a rebuy MTT, got knocked out and went to rebuy only to discover they charge rake on their rebuys. This is completely scabby and it is the only poker site on the net that does this as far as I know. Being a bit pissed off about this I went into their main lobby chat thingy where the hosts/managers chat to air my gripe. I typed in "Cant believe VC charge rake on their rebuys this is so CHEAP A SS" (and it is it is a fair comment when you consider the $$$ they make!!) to find myself then instantly chat banned with no explanation or warning!!! Well annoyed I clicked on "Manager Chat" to ask for an explantion. I got a host who said if I wanted my chat back I must email them apologising in full for what I said, promising not to do it again blah blah and then they will reinstate it. I countered that I had nothing to apologise for because I was making a fair point and didnt she think all the customers deserve an answer - no apology no chat was the response. At this point I almost told her to stuff her apology where the sun dont shine but biting my tounge I phoned up straight away instead. The host I had been chatting to answered the phone and straight away put me through to her manageress. The phone was then answered by what sounded like one of those 50 yr old school mistresses who thinks she is always right and noone should have any fun . What was then amusing was she then pulled up my account record on her screen and instantly changed her tune. She said oh I can see you are one of our good players with many hours of action.....big stall as she looked at my history.........Ok I have reinstated your chat. Why did you ban me I asked, "Because we cannot have any bad press on our site at all" - no warnings or anything blah blah blah - this will be why others have had their chat banned for querying the RNG. Asked about the rebuys again but was told like it or lump it they just want our money basically. So got my chat back but terrible customer service.

They enourage a lot of cliquey gangs on their site to generate action as well, very strange if you ask me.

Basically, fair RNG but crappy site and attitude.

Jez

[dave]

Originally Posted by Jezza

I would say the card generator is random - yes there are a lot of outdraws/bad beats but this is poker for you. The beats happen everywhere and of course since online poker lends itself to over 70hands an hr you see a lot more bad beats than you do in a live poker game as you are getting twice as many hands in!

Not only are there more hands played in online poker, but (except at the bigger stakes) people tend to call more with worse hands. So more hands + more callers = more potential for outdraws/bad beats.

[aliensyndm]

Because you don't have to be there in person hippies afraid to be seen in public like dave aren't afraid to play and it's all that lot who are repsonisble for bad beats.

[Markpl1]

Cheers folks i think i officially went on tilt for the first last night. Still for my own sanity going to stick to other sites.

[stereoman]

It's been a while since I played at Victor Chandler Poker (it's the same software that Paddy Power and Blue Square use as well. Anybody play using Paddy Power's version and seen that there's severely messed up with the software or is it just me?!).

Looking back at how I lost £65 there (but made a £35 profit thanks to the 25% bonus) and got beat in all sorts of fooking ways not just miracle straights and runner-runner flushes, I don't think you were imagining it Mark but maybe you were remembering the baddest of your bad beats when you were a huge favourite to win a particular hand for example?

....mind you a year ago I was learning the basics (still am in a way) and I'm a complete cynic at the best of times.

I still haven't had a go over at the Pacific Poker tables to get my two free poker books for example, because I'm generally a bit scared. Aaiiee!

[Mockler]

Hi all,

As you well know ive been playing online poker for sometime as a living .. STAY AWAY FROM VC! In my opinion as ive played so many diffrent sites and have 3 sites as my home for poker now .. VC does bias towards flushes BADLY and i do believe they do have some fixed hands for rake .. as alot of others also do aswell .. i made some decent money off VC while i was there and never lost too much .. so why would i bitch? becuase you actually do become a little scared of entring big pots becuase of there bias towards flushes and st8s .. if im on a ace pair with the river too come .. and someone goes all in with a gutshot .. there is a high tendency for the st8/flush too come which isnt correct as ive played so many sites .. VC is blatant. Simple advice is this .. dont play there .. it also has a very poor player base .. which also contributes too bad beats too .. bad calls create bad beats. Ive met VC hosts in newcastle at a poker tournament .. Kelly was her name and she is supervisor there .. shes a great girl and very nice .. but she told me they are instructed too chat ban at the slightest things. I was chat banned for life there and had 1 account closed due too there inabailty too treat customers properly. I was in a MTT there .. 13 left and we all got disconnted from there server .. most got back on but i couldnt connect too it .. by there time i got back the players at my table had swallowed up my blinds which were around 3/6k .. when i got back to the table i had something like 1.6k chips left .. i was so angry i complained so they closed my account I never play there now.

[GETT1NLOTS]

Simple advice is this .. dont play there .. it also has a very poor player base .. which also contributes too bad beats too .. bad calls create bad beats.

I don't understand this advice from a 'professional' frankly. If you say VC is full of crap players then that is exactly where I am heading. I can take the odd bad beat to play with a bunch of muppets that will call my better hand on the river with an insider draw. Yes please.

[Jezza]

Hmm I agree with GETT1N here...

I LIKE players calling me with bad odds. its what gives me my $$$ in the long run. Sure sometimes/a lot of the time they will hit and outdraw me but if noone ever called me with a worse hand trying to hit some lame draw then I could never win.

Jez

[Mockler]

Well all i can say is this .. try it

I know some excellent players who play on there aswell .. on high limit tables like i do .. but i dont think you guys realise how hard it is too play NL poker at a high level for players with a low skill ability who play it like limit. Well im pretty much a seasoned pro as ive been playing for sometime .. i hate VC with a passion for a lot of reason's and i cannot stress enough about staying away from there but this is only advice whther it is taken or not.

GL gett1n if you play there.

[Mockler]

1 example of VC is this..

I make a small raise in the small blind with QT suited .. guy in BB calls as does 1 other player who previously called ..

FLOP comes .. TQT .. wow i drop a fullhouse .. pretty much the nuts at this point in the hand.

I raise fairly small hoping too keep someone in the hand with me .. BB folds and the other guy re raises me .. now i think xmas has come early .. so i re raise him another 75$ .. now theres a decent pot .. too my dismay he raises all in (890$) making the pot around 1k before i call .. now im thinking he has 2 QQ's which would just kill me but i have too call this bet .. its impossible too laydown as the odds and the betting previous too my intial raise says to me he doesnt have QQ's .. i call .. he turns over 77! i just couldnt believe he raised me all in on 77 but im delighted ..

TURN 7
RIVER 7

I lose 1k.
Thats a 1000-1 outdraw by the way.

You would be surprised HOW much these outdraws happen on VC .. its beyond a joke but like i said try it for yourself .. once over i monitored the % of a flush hitting the board when the flop has 2 suited cards .. 73% of the time .. thats just un****ing believable. Something else of note is this also that i monitored .. when a card hits the flop first under 6 .. 67% of the time .. there isnt a card hitting the board over a T in the same flop. Soemthing else of note .. AA is on avg meant too be dealt too you about once every 250+ hands i think? cant remember exact figure .. VC its around 80 hands .. as i once had AA 4 times in 35 mins whilst playing a cash table. I also had 3 str8 flushes in 6 hands onceover .. you know how high all these %'s sit at? You may think .. wow if its like this i will win LOTS OF MONEY! Then why do i make a living off Paradise/PokerStars/Betfair etc .. yet its a hefty chorse too win great amounts on VC? ask yourself the same question .. i have many times.

Ive tried too warn you away from there but if you want all these things from poker then sure go and try it but ill never put any hard earned cash in that site ever again and i know far more people who have left there than stay there for any period of time (good players too).

GL!

[Mockler]

I can take the odd bad beat to play with a bunch of muppets that will call my better hand on the river with an insider draw. Yes please.


Hence my point gett1n .. you will see how many times that gutshot hits mate and after 5-6 times it does it too you .. i guarantee you will leave VC and give exactly same advice as im doing now

[aliensyndm]

If you think their software is fixed, why not report them ? I would suspect cos it's completely legit, just can't see it being in their interest to "fix" it.
I remember jez had a similar story, I think he had KK, and flopped K66, nice.
He get's all the guys money in on the flop, he had A7 or something. Whilst he's counting up his new money he get's turn 6, river 6. Best hand is now 6666A, the same outdraw you had basically, they happen. I've seen just as bad live, they happen.

[aliensyndm]

Oh yeah and raising with Q10 suited in the small blind seems a bit dodgy no ?
Not a raising hand in the small blind if you are playing cash !

[Coltron]

Aces should come around every 221 hands if my memory servers me.

[aliensyndm]

Well either memory or you just did the caculation ! But yeah you're right.

1/(4/52*3/51)

[Mockler]

QT suited isnt a raise with 1 flat caller, with the BB too come? you having a laugh? I love lettting people see a flop with a mid pair or 2 rags for free.

Anyway ive said all i neded too and aint gonna sit to be flamed .. was just my opinion.

Gl wherever u play.

[aliensyndm]

It wasn't a flame. I personally think a raise on a cash table in the small blind there is not a good idea, you disagree. Would be interesting to see on stats how much cash you won/lost in the small blind

[GETT1NLOTS]

Mockler,

VC are so desperate for a slightly better percentage on the rake they fix the hands so that more players have an interest in the pot? Is that what you're saying?

The multi million pound company VC who will make profits for years to come (unless a scandal puts them out of business) have fixed their software (something so easy to prove by a rogue employee) that they would risk it all to try and make a few more quid?

This sounds like the reasoning of a novice - not that of a professional. I'm not saying that is what you are by the way (as I never get personal ) - I'm just saying that this is what your OPINION sounds like to me.

I'm not the 'finished article' by any means - and you might 'take me to the sword' if we played head to head? I admit I'm learning all the time.

I'm just saying that your reasoning makes no sense to me in the slightest.