STT - AA first hand

[jeffers]

Interested to see what people would do?

[jeffers]

Personally I think I'd raise, as a first hand all in is surely likely to be a waste of AA? Although, I've heard a few people say early on go all in and try to double up quick to bide time to play safe till people knock each other out.

[^Newbie^]

i would raise . Chances are some muppets would want to call you . If the muppets re-raise , better still . Play at their own game .

[stereoman]

....what is it they say? It's only a pair? It's only an 80% favourite against any other random hand (barring the other unlikely AA holding)?

Most if not all would suggest 'raise' but it depends if some stupid buggers before or after you, go all-in or something....even then I'd call the all-in/large raise and hope to dodge the myriad of 20% chances that'd help the fooker(s).

You won't win all the time though. Some bugger will catch a card or two that they'll need and send you straight out on the first hand.

[jeffers]

That's a point - I wouldn't GO all in, but I would definately CALL an all in.

[AJ]

First hand in a stt, with pocket rockets? no question at all. It's an all-in .

In an STT esp at lower limits (below $20), the standard of play can be poor. An all in first hand isn't unusal. In fact I see then 50%+ of the time.

You go all in first hand and you will be called, nothing surer. Better to go all in and be up against 1 other person (likely the worst player at the table), with a great chance of winning and doubling (steroman says 80% chance, I read 88%), than having 5 people call your raise and have some villian get three 2's or drawing for a flush or straight.

In summary, an all in will likely leave you heads up with 1 other player, a raise can lead to 4 or 5 players drawing away at your aces. Pretty sure the EV is better heads up.

[jeffers]

What's this "EV" i keep reading btw ?

[AJ]

Ev = Expected value

more details here.

http://www.tightpoker.com/poker_hands.html

[Tax_Monkey]

Depends on position- First to act or early then I'd put in a large raise. Last or late position I'd go all-in and hope someone thinks I'm trying to blind steal and calls me with crap.

[GazBlades]

Although I've voted Limp In, I mean't to select raise.

[daftpegasus]

In a low value STT it would have to be All In.

If you put in a big raise (say 50% of your chips) you'd expect to get some muppet re-raising All In. On the first hand you'd expect at least one caller and you're winning at that point.

Don't give them a chance to see if they hit anything on the flop.

[AJ]

surprised people are suggesting a raise, surely this will only encourage a large number of callers, which the AA plays poorly against, it's only a pair after all, if you slow play it, the chances are it'll not hold up. You've gotta smash people out the hand, and go heads up. Worse case you take the blinds only, gotta be better than raising and chancing the loss of half your stack

[^Newbie^]

Selected raise because AA may be the best hand pre-flop , but comes the flop , it may not be that case anymore . Someone may have got trips or hit 2 pair . Easier for you to get away from that hand too .

Originally Posted by Foolsgold

surprised people are suggesting a raise, surely this will only encourage a large number of callers, which the AA plays poorly against, it's only a pair after all, if you slow play it, the chances are it'll not hold up. You've gotta smash people out the hand, and go heads up. Worse case you take the blinds only, gotta be better than raising and chancing the loss of half your stack

[6ooner]

Originally Posted by Foolsgold

surprised people are suggesting a raise, surely this will only encourage a large number of callers, which the AA plays poorly against, it's only a pair after all, if you slow play it, the chances are it'll not hold up. You've gotta smash people out the hand, and go heads up. Worse case you take the blinds only, gotta be better than raising and chancing the loss of half your stack

The option is to go all in and hope to double up. If the all in gets called you still only have a pair and a pair that will see the community cards. If you want to discourage betting raise 4 or 5 times the blind, if you get called you have it covered if not you've won the same. After the flop the game changes. Would you go all in with Ac Ad if the flop showed Js Qs Ks - 4 outs for the straight against a possible made straight, flush or trips?

I'd say the sensible thing on a STT first hand (10 players) would be the raise.

[Tax_Monkey]

Originally Posted by Foolsgold

surprised people are suggesting a raise, surely this will only encourage a large number of callers, which the AA plays poorly against, it's only a pair after all, if you slow play it, the chances are it'll not hold up. You've gotta smash people out the hand, and go heads up. Worse case you take the blinds only, gotta be better than raising and chancing the loss of half your stack

In my experience of STT's (not much compared to some people here I know) someone who raises all-in from early position on the first hand can expect to get called by at least one or 2 people quite often. I presume because the callers just think the original raiser is just an all-in muppet.

[AJ]

Would you go all in with Ac Ad if the flop showed Js Qs Ks - 4 outs for the straight against a possible made straight, flush or trips?

no of course not.

[6ooner]

Originally Posted by Foolsgold

no of course not.

The point I'm trying to make is that the bet with AA is to steal the pot, all in, if called could take you out of the game, a hefty raise should scare most people off but if not you still manage to survive for more hands if your AAs don't hold up.

[manfredd]

Personally i'd go all in with AA on 1st hand, people get annoyed thinking your trying 2 snatch the blinds early,and will quite often call with only half decent hands so youve got a gr8 chance of doubling up.

[georgej]

It would be a raise for me.

Can't see the point of having AA but only getting 15 chips.

[daftpegasus]

Originally Posted by 6ooner

The point I'm trying to make is that the bet with AA is to steal the pot, all in, if called could take you out of the game, a hefty raise should scare most people off but if not you still manage to survive for more hands if your AAs don't hold up.

The problem I see with this is that at that level of STT (<$20) on the very first hand you are almost certain to get callers. The more callers the more chance you have of losing. I have seen people call an All In on the first hand with 10,6 off suit (note that they called the All In with this, not took a gamble on a bluff).

In higher value tournaments I agree with you that you shouldn't risk it all on the very first hand.