PL Players Club

[SteveO]

Originally Posted by RIVRD

Fantastic idea

As a question, would you be taking ie the top 10 from the bpp chart ? or would it be better to run a seperate table along the one that you are already running so everyone is starting a fresh as such, so people can see how they are currently running as obviously some people are in form and some are out of form. So the ones that are finding a bit of form may be currently way down the present BPP chart and may not get picked.

I think that is a very good idea RIVRD don't know how Gaf feels about it.

[goater14(BPP)]

Great idea, will encourage people to play more focus games as well

[GotaFancy?]

Glad it seems to be going down well Cant see why it wouldn't, but you never know till you try

If we can build up some winnings and a pot, then we would love to use the prize pool and expand it to be more frequent/cover more players

In general, staking someone for a 50/50 split is pretty large negative expectation, even if they are a class player with a significant edge - that edge cannot normally be enough - however the value added in this poker trillion game probably does give us an opportunity to build a fund,a nd have a positive ev

Not sure I totally understand rivrd's point - but the BPP table is on a 28 day cycle, so in 28 days time, no currently counting scores are applicable to someones achievement - the table will now almost totally recycle before the award therefore.... I'm not keen to generate too much more bureaucracy for myself

[jolly67]

Great idea, I was just saying to Steve'O' the other night that I needed to start playing more focus games, only problem is I seem to have completely lost the poker plot in the last couple of months.There are more than enough great players on here to make a success of this

[strider]

Think rivrd probably meant would the table be reset each month instead of the cyclical 28 day period more like a monthly league


What do you mean not too keen to generate more bureaucracy for yourslef I noticed you weren't logged on earlier,you know you're not allowed outside of the forum

[GotaFancy?]

Yeah - sorry for my (brief) absence!!

I will use the existing BPP struvture (which completely renews on a 28 day cycle - so is basically the same as a monthly league) - in general, I will try and announce it 28 days in advance of the prizes, so that everyone knows what they are playing for...

[voiceofjoe]

Nice Idea - and now makes the BPP more worthy.

Couple of questions

1. If the initial gift from Punterslounge eradicates how is the fund going to be funded in the future.

2. Will the tournaments all be Net based or will some be land based

.... and the next bit is a reiteration of what RIVRD was trying to say (I think) , in respect of the points. I think you need to know where you stand in the overall position to be top within the 28 days prior to the cutoff date. I think its just another formula column to your spreadsheet.

That would do a running total of points earned in the 28 days prior to the cut off date, as you may have a scored a big total the 30th day before cutoff, and be top, but which wouldnt count towards the total for the prize ?? (there clear as mud)

[GotaFancy?]

1. Well we have to win dont we It's a bit of a trial at the moment - it may be that we can get another gift out of PuntersLounge, it may be that we need to find another means of funding, or it may be that we decide it hasn't really generated much interest and we let it slide .... basically we just need to wait and see how it goes...

2) Intention at the moment is that all tourneys are net based - we will not be staking in to sats either - if the winner was to come to us with an offline tourney they wanted to enter, for a similar buy in, and with similar added value, then I'm sure we could be persuaded THough I imagine they'd be quite hard to find. The value is essential to try and avoid the fund going bust too often and too quickly.....

Another column in my spreadsheet would throw all my macros out - and those macros scare me now I daren't touch it.....

[RIVRD]

Was just trying to point out that there is not a problem with the BPP table or anything, but would you be picking the person at the top of that table ?

Yes they are the BPP but someone who is much further down the table may have actually scored more points than the present BPP but are so far down the table not being able to overtake them but is actually playing more consistent.

[GotaFancy?]

The BPP table is solely a measure of how someone has performed in the last 28 focus games If you dont play 28 consecutive focus games then you have 0 points.

The player who is top of the BPP table after 31st March is the one we will stake in I did want to give 28 days notice but it took a little longer than I hoped to sort everything out and confirm it (mainly because I've been very busy with the eSport league)

It is likely that the 2nd player we stake will be the player who is BPP on 30th April - so there will be the full 28 days for that one....

[ubermonkey1]

Originally Posted by GotaFancy?

If we can build up some winnings and a pot, then we would love to use the prize pool and expand it to be more frequent/cover more players

In general, staking someone for a 50/50 split is pretty large negative expectation, even if they are a class player with a significant edge - that edge cannot normally be enough - however the value added in this poker trillion game probably does give us an opportunity to build a fund,a nd have a positive ev

i think this is a great idea in principle but as you have pointed out gaf ,with a 50/50 split its gonna be awfully tough to get a profit out of it.
after all i'm sure nobody wants this to run out in 3 months time if the first 3 buyins end up as no cashesno matter who plays it is always possible.

i would love to see this grow into something really big that not only helps players move up to higher stakes games and the chance of a nice big winbut also strenghens the great spirit of the lounge.


which is why i thought of another idea which i think has some big pluses but also a couple of negatives(which hopefully someone might be able to think up a way round)


what about a fund that will buy in 50% and take 50% profit.

i think this would have a real chance of growing to a point where it could be helping a lot of players instead of maybe 12/24 a year and could turn a really healthy profit.
it would be helping players gain entry into a higher buy in than they can normally afford that has good added value ,but not put to much pressure on each player.

i know from personal experiance that playing a lot bigger buy in games than your used to can effect your game ,and as dodger said you will be under a bit of extra pressure playing for everybody else anyway .

i myself would feel a bit less worried playing for half my money, half someone elses ,than all someone elses.

doing it this way you could maybe have 4 buy in levels $10/$20/$50/$100

each month a 50/50buy in is offered in a value added tourney at each level, which shouldnt be to difficult to find a decent tourney at each level in a monthduring the month put a poll up asking which level you want to buy in at, whoever gets highest bpp in each poll is offered a seat ,if declined next in line gets it etc.

i think this would actually give a fairer chance to those who cant regularly buy in for $10 because they cant play all the focus games and so are less likely to be able to be top .

i could see a point in the not too distant future where you could 50/50buy in 5 people a month at each levelafter all in most value added games the field is usually large and having 5 players in is no bad thing ,and it gives more people the opportunity to gain and contribute

maybe if the bankroll really took off you could give a free seat to the players who come first in each level with 50% of any win going back in the kitty, but only once its a bit safer to do so.

the only bad points i can think of is a little extra work putting up the poll and working out who comes top of each poll,and working a good system of moving the money around between the lounge and the players and back again.

after all it seems a lot of successfull pros stake /offer shares with each other so there must be something to it


anyway my little poker eutopia might just be a crazy impossible pipe dream but i'm hoping someone might say its possible and even workable and maybe even makes some sense

[GotaFancy?]

You make some great points Uber Will come back to this when I've finished on the tables

[Milber]

Another top idea Gaf

[GotaFancy?]

Ok Uber

You've identified one of the biggest concerns/problems - sustainability....

Two issues to achieving sustainability - bankroll management and positive ev (from the 50% cut).

First off - positive ev - we're totally reliant on heavy added value for that if we pay full buy in, and only receive 50% of profit. I think the PokerTrillion games (at the moment) have enough added value per player that we can have a positive expectation on the buy in. (even only getting 50% of profit back). Obviously that wont last for ever, and eventually we'll probably be selecting lower added value games, which will leave us without positive ev. However if we get a good run from the money, and give people new opportunities, then it is still worthwhile even if it is doomed to eventually go bust.... If it's worthwhile, then I think we have a great chance of securing extra funding from PL to replenish this when needed....

Secondly - Bankroll management - we have £200 to start off with - we are investing about £83 of that in the first game - one player one game - and then we'll probably go for the same in the second month!! Crazy bankroll management - and higher than we probably would have done - but it's "crazy" (great) added value too, and a chance for positive ev. The probability is that the first 2 staked players wont cash. The probability is that we will look to replenish funds with a gift from PL for the third month. The probability is that we will get another gift

Eventually we will get a result, and a big boost to funds....then we can look to giving away weekly buy ins, and maybe even multiple weekly buy ins. For as long as I perceive that there is positive ev from the PokerTrillion game with 50% of profit, we will probably stay there. Once I perceive the value to be negative ev, then we will have to look at it again and probably find a different tourney (with a cheaper buy in). For the moment though I perceive the value of PokerTrillion to be too large to ignore, with the knowledge that extra funding will probably be available when necessary if we go bust

Onto your proposal - in theory it's great I think it would work for a lot of players on PL, however there is one major drawback - and I think it is losing one of the major advantages of the original proposal.

We want to give people an opportunity to play a game that they wouldn't usually play. If we only stake them 50% then they have to pay the other 50% - that will be a "no" for a lot of players on here - for example - with the Trillion game - if PL pays €50+(€5 and we expect the player to pay €50+€5 - then there are a lot of players who wouldn't do it. Of the players who would pay €50 - I suspect the vast majority would be prepared to pay €100 with the value added - and if they have positive ev which I think most of us should have with such an overlay) , then they probably should pay the full buy in themselves....if PL pays the full buy in, then there are a far higher range of players who should play for PL, instead of themselves (even if they're prepared to pay the €109 themselves)

[millbet]

Cracking idea nice 1

[kippe6]

this may be off subject but what about having a private sat to the trillion game and work something that way rather than busting stack incouple of buy ins if site will allow . not saying we will lose but best to protect bankroll

[GotaFancy?]

Originally Posted by kippe6

this may be off subject but what about having a private sat to the trillion game and work something that way rather than busting stack incouple of buy ins if site will allow . not saying we will lose but best to protect bankroll

Not sure I totally understand.....is this what you're suggesting (and correct me if I'm wrong)...

Rather than... 1xMonthly Buy in of €109 to PokerTrillion, we pay, for example, 10 x €11 buyins per month to a private PL sat - others may buy in and 1 in 10 get a seat? I'm not sure that really reduces the risk and for the same money the club may not get a player in the trillion game (or may get multiple players)

[GotaFancy?]

An "in running" update - theses are the scores most likely (but not guaranteed) to be counting towards this months results....

Pos

Pts

PL Username

Virgin

Rank

HR

HP

DT

Min

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

26

27

28

29

1

2

3

4

5

6

6

7

8

9