KQo in Pokertracker

[GotaFancy?]

Here is a copy and paste from my blog - any thoughts? Have been looking at my biggest losses in Poker Tracker to try and plug some leaks......

Originally Posted by gaf's poker gaffs

A2s looks my biggest leak, but I'm more interested in KQo for the moment - because that hand simply shouldn't be there!!!! (but is in both lists) - so I am going to disect KQo!!!!

52 times I have been dealt KQo, of which I folded Pre Flop 32 times. Of the 20 occasions I played it, 14 times I let it go with minimal loss. 3 times I made a minimal win and 3 times I made losses. So lets look at the 3 losses!!!

Loss 1 - $10.00
I am Big Blind. 5 Limpers to me allowing me in "free". I check and see the flop.
Flop comes 8sQc6s. I have top pair.
Second to act I bet 40c into the 60c pot.
3 players call, next 2 fold.
Turn comes 3h
I am first to act.
Potential flush and straight draws that I want to pay for their draws. I bet $2 into the $2.20 pot.
Player 1 calls. Player 2 folds. Player 3 raises to $13.09 and is all in!!
Now I have a decision to make!! I cannot remember any specific reads I had on my opponent, but "only" have top pair with high (but not top) kicker - decision should generally be to let it go!! I am being asked to put $7.50 (all in for me) in to the pot for the chance to win $13.70 (or $21.20 if player to act after me also calls)
For whatever reason I call!!!!
Player to follow me folds and we are HU.
Opponent turns over 7d5h. He is semi bluffing and has an open ended straight draw. He has 8 outs with 1 card to come, so is an 18% shot to win the hand and I am 82%.
The river is the 4s and I am beat.
I have to be happy with the way I played that - I made the right choice to call his all in and was just unlucky on the river!!!! I should not be looking to change this.
Looking at my opponents stats now (which were not necessarily available at the time, though a partial picture should have started to be formed!!) goes some way to explaining why I called his all in!! I have seen him play 90 hands. He has voluntarily put money into the pot on 75% of those hands!!!!! Interestingly he made a profit over these 90 hands, despite being so loose - making 167.11 BB/100 hands!!!! His aggression factor on the turn is 2.9 (aggressive!!) - this is more aggressive than me with an aggressive factor on the turn of 2.3.
In general, I should fold to the all in - against this opponent though I can accept it was the right decision to call.

Loss 2 - $3.79

I am in middle position. 2 Limpers and a minimum raise to me. I flat call!! Horrible!!!!!!
Player following me calls, everyone folds to the blinds. BB and two early limpers call. 6 Players in the pot and I am 5th to act. As it happens, not a bad result, though through luck rather than design!!!
Flop comes 6c2d6h
Everyone checks.
Turn comes 4s to complete rainbow.
First player checks.
2nd player bets 10c into $1.25 pot.
3rd player calls
4th player folds
I call
6th player calls
1st player folds
River comes Ks
I have top 2 pair with Q kicker. No flushes and unlikely straights. A 6 is the only worry, but in general I feel I should have the strongest hand!!!
Players 1 and 2 check.
I bet $1 into the $1.65 pot.
Player 4 raises to $3.49 and is all in.
Players 1 and 2 fold.
I now have to decide if I pay $2.49 for the chance to win $6.14
I do and my opponent turns over 7s6s and his Trip 6 has me beat.
With 5 opponents seeing the flop, holding 10 cards between them, I should have taken the "threat" of one of them holding a 6 far more seriously!!!! However I wasn't aggressive till I hit and there was agreat chance I was winning. Was the final call correct? That depends on the read on my opponent!!! Even now, I only have 31 hands history on this opponent, so a hard choice, but hard to lay the hand down!!!!

Loss 3 - $1.10

I am in late position. 2 callers before me. 3 callers after me (all blinds - one player just arrived at table), so 6 players seeing the flop.
Flop is KhJcJd
4 players before me check.
I bet 40c into the 60c pot. I need to see where I am against a possible J.
I have one flat caller.
Turn is 3d - not a card to change much.
Opponent checks.
I check!!!! Should have asked a question, but opponent holding a J is rightly worrying me!!!
River is 9h.
Opponent bets 60c into the pot of $1.40.
It will cost me 60c for the chance to win $2 - I need to see my opponents J and pay!!!
Opponent turns over QdTh. I gave him a free card on the turn and he hit!!!! Should I have bet again on the turn or was I right to be worried about the J? Could/Should I have taken down the pot sooner, or was I right to be worried about a J? Should I have paid off the bet at the end? Not sure what I could/should have done differently!!!

Summary

I think that there are too few hands here for serious conclusions - did I play any of the hands too badly? A couple of rivers against me and the stats for the way I play KQo are completely distorted and looking worse than they are!!! Think I need to come back to this when I have a few more hands to look at!!!

[Masterplan]

kqo is a danger hand for me as well. do you preflop raise? do you limp?
how can you play the top pair without the top kicker?
for me i guess there's only 2 ways to play it, limp look for the 2pair or straight.
or play aggressively and hope your top pair decent kicker holds up.
but i just had a $20 loss on cash tables today ... so take my opinions with salt

[Gizdalord]

what is doing a limp?

[the croc]

something like this???????????

[6ooner]

Originally Posted by Gizdalord

what is doing a limp?

Limping means calling the bet without raising just to see a cheap flop. A lot of people belive that if your hand is good enough to stay in you should always raise. If you're last to act preflop and there have been a lot of limpers, generally a decent raise should scare off most people with average hands who have 'limped in' to see the flop.

[6ooner]

Originally Posted by the croc

something like this???????????

Think that's more of a swagger

[the croc]

difficult to find a limp lol

[Valiant23]

I've had KQos quite a lot recently and I've started to use it as a very strong hand pre-flop, almost a 2nd class AKo.

I'm happy to raise with it pre-flop and if I come up against an A on the flop then I'll let it go.

I'm not saying I play KQ perfectly, but I'm prepared to accept the hazard of coming up against AK and AQ, and if someone is holding this they are quite likely to re-raise me and tell me where I stand.

I think the problems you encountered where possibly through a lack of pre-flop aggression.

[6ooner]

Originally Posted by Valiant23

I've had KQos quite a lot recently and I've started to use it as a very strong hand pre-flop, almost a 2nd class AKo.

I'm happy to raise with it pre-flop and if I come up against an A on the flop then I'll let it go.

I'm not saying I play KQ perfectly, but I'm prepared to accept the hazard of coming up against AK and AQ, and if someone is holding this they are quite likely to re-raise me and tell me where I stand.

I think the problems you encountered where possibly through a lack of pre-flop aggression.

I think KQo can be a very strong preflop hand if the table is tight and it's later on in the tournament. In the early stages I'd tend to stay away from it because it could give you false security against the bet-with-anything merchants. By the time you've managed to get a decent read on a few players it's quite powerful and generates action.

But thats probably why I always lose

[BDaveG]

There was a really useful book free with one of the poker mags this month which analysed all the starting hands worth playing. For the KQ off suit it reads

KQ off-suit is a powerful starting hand but it's not infallible. For example you can't really justify calling a big raise from a solid player, because if you're up against a big pair pre-flop you will lose 65% of the confrontations. King-Queen is known as a trap hand because it has a high chance of becoming the second best hand at showdown. There are times to raise with a hand like this, however. If you're in late position and you're first to enter the pot, consider throwing in some chips to find out where you are.

Probability of beating one random hand 51%
Probability of beating two random hands 34%
Probability of beating three random hands 26%
Probability of beating four random hands 20%

[GotaFancy?]

Cheers guys - useful ideas!!

Like the idea that it's down to pre flop passivity - and that's a "line of enquiry" to investige