US Presidential Election 2004

Gamebookers have the following odds:
George Bush Jr @ 1.70
John Kerry @ 1.90

Today I saw an article that made me think that opposing Bush was a good idea. I was just wondering if anyone agreed/disagreed?

Full article:

10 REASONS BUSH WANTS TO BAN MOORE FILM May 20 2004


..like it could make him lose the next election

By Ryan Parry


A NEW film is sending shockwaves through the United States in general and the White House in particular - and it hasn't even been released yet.

Fahrenheit 9/11, which this week got the longest standing ovation in Cannes Film Festival history, tells what its director Michael Moore sees as the truth behind the war in Iraq and on terror.

It is said to be so powerful it could tip November's US presidential election against George W Bush. As Moore says: "We were able to get film crews embedded with American troops without them knowing it was Michael Moore. They are totally f***ed."

Disney has refused to distribute the film in the States, saying its content could upset the presidential elections. Moore says that's precisely why the public should see it.

These are the 10 killer questions the film poses.

1, AFTER the 9/11 attacks, why was the only plane to fly out of the US carrying 24 members of Osama bin Laden's family?

IN the wake of the attacks, the US became a no-fly zone. Moore asks: "Why did Bush allow a private Saudi jet to fly around the US in the days after September 11 to pick up members of the bin Laden family and fly them out of the country without a proper FBI investigation? Might it have been possible that at least one of the 24 bin Ladens would have known something?"

2, ARE the media covering up abuse of Iraqi prisoners and the disillusionment of American troops?

MOORE'S film shows soldiers hooding and mistreating Iraqi detainees, and even shows troops taking it in turns to sexually abuse a drunk elderly man.

He says: "This occurred outside the Abu Ghraib prison walls. The media is there every single day. Why haven't they seen this? I don't think we've heard American soldiers in the field talk as they do in this film about their disillusionment and their despair; about their questioning of what was going on."

3, IS Bush deliberately creating a culture of fear to get poor American youth to fight his war?

MOORE accuses the Bush administration of deliberately creating a climate of fear, particularly by the instigation of the Department of Homeland Security, to increase numbers signing up for the armed forces. He calls this "the immoral act of sending kids to war on the basis of a lie".

4, HOW deep does the connection between the Bush family and bin Laden family actually run?

MOORE exposes business links between the bin Ladens and the Bushes over the last 25 years. Bush Snr became a highly paid consultant for the Carlyle Group, one of the nation's largest defence contractors. One of the investors in Carlyle - to the tune of at least $2million (£1.2m) - was the bin Laden family.

The campaigner says: "The bin Laden family have extensive dealings with large companies in the US. They have donated $2m to Bush's alma mater, Harvard. They own property in Texas, Florida and Massachusetts. In short, they have their hands deep in our pants."

5, JUST how sinister was the White House's doctoring of Bush's military record?

MOORE suggests that, far from being simply an exercise in proving that Bush attended to his Texas Air National Guard duties, the White House version also sought to hide evidence that Bush and his associates had close ties with various Saudi oil companies. He also suggests that a former military pal of Bush's, James R Bath, once sold a plane to the bin Laden family.

6, DID Bush miss an opportunity to nail bin Laden during secret talks with the Taliban?

MOORE claims that while Bush was governor of Texas he built a relationship with the Taliban rulers of Afghanistan. They met in Texas to discuss a project to build a natural gas pipeline from Turkmenistan through Taliban-controlled Afghanistan and into Pakistan.

Representatives of the Bush administration met the Taliban in the summer of 2001. Moore says they ignored the bin Laden issue and were pre-occupied with oil. He asks: "Was Bush discussing their offer to hand over bin Laden? Was he threatening them with force? Was he discussing a new pipeline?"

7, WHY does the Bush family have a "special relationship" with the Saudi royal family?

"MORE than 1.5 million barrels of oil needed in the US daily from the Saudis could vanish on a royal whim, so we begin to see how not only Bush, but all of us, are dependent on the House of Saud," says Moore. "This can't be good for national security."

Moore also refers to Prince Bandar bin Sultan, the Saudi ambassador to the US, who is nicknamed Bandar Bush because of his close links with the president. Despite increasing evidence linking the September 11 atrocity to Saudi militants, Bush still met Prince Bandar for dinner two days later.

8, WAS Bush spending too much time on holiday to concentrate on terrorism?

BUSH was on holiday for 42 per cent of the eight months before September 11, letting his guard down, according to Moore. At a 9/11 commission hearing, CIA director George Tenet admitted he had known since August 2001 that Zacarias Moussaoui, the only man charged in connection with 9/11, had been taking lessons on how to fly a 747. Tenet claimed he didn't tell Bush because the president, "was on vacation".

9, DID Bush panic when he was told about the attack on the twin towers?

ON the morning of September 11, President Bush was posing for cameras at a children's literacy event in Florida.

Moore has previously unseen footage showing the rabbit-in-car-headlights expression on the president's face when he is told about the second plane hitting the twin towers.

A stopwatch appears in the corner of the screen, as the minutes tick by and the president keeps reading My Pet Goat, not knowing what to do without his advisers to tell him.

Moore says: "Was Bush thinking he should have taken reports the CIA had given him the month before more seriously? That he had been told al-Qaeda was planning attacks in the US and planes would possibly be used. Or was he scared witless?"

10, DID Bush manipulate the major US media companies to fix his 2000 election win?

BUSH'S cousin John Ellis, a Fox News executive, was instrumental in "calling it" for Bush/Cheney on election night and cowed the other networks into joining in. This confusion helped set the scene for the debacle that ended in his election despite Al Gore winning the popular majority.

At the start of Fahrenheit 9/11, the major players are seen smirking and preening themselves. "Here they are," Moore narrates, "the whole corrupt gang who fixed the 2000 election."

With you here - think Bush on his way out...

btw you can get Republicans@1.80, Democrats@2.22 at Betfair...

Looks good value to me....

mr onemore
Hopefully we'll be proved right! Somehow I don't think this is a thread that's going to grab people's attention , but I think it's a pretty good bet.
Good luck

haha! Don't want to sound like a smart-arse here, but "don't bet on it!"

You see, people in America are more patriotic (ok...read: STUPID!) than you can imagine! (apologies to any US guys here that are decent, open minded folk!).

Fact is that in the US they believe their on press....and have the whole "Yeah!...We'll kick their ass!!" attitude.

Sad.

Sorry, political thread. Quite clear the rest of the world see Bush as a 'dud', but I'm not sure the US people will see it that way.
Tough bet.

[Winrew]

If you read some of the American papers on-line...Bush doesnt get much negative press...for some strange reason:banghead

Agree with Tazza.....for patriotic....read stupid....insular....etc...

Fair comments - taken on board.

For the record, I'm not dabbling here just because I don't fancy tying my money up for 6 months.

Still, here's something to think over...

Is the money on Betfair from the US or outside. I suspect from outside US so perhaps also susceptible to some change from the media based outside the US.

I don't know the answer, but still think the 2.22 on Democrats is some kind of value...anyhow, you lot have scared me off...

Gamebookers have now shortened the odds:
George Bush Jr @ 1.80
John Kerry @ 1.80

If the bet wins I'll bump the thread, if it loses, I'll let it fade into obscurity .

[Tulenos]

You may remember, though, Bush had the same image, fed mainly by the independent press, before the last election. What happened - he won. As stated above, I'm afraid we can never understand the Americans - they widely criticise him, but then vote for him. Another factor is the number of people taking part in the election is usually something like 25 per cent or lower - it means (at least to me) the result can go either way.

Tulenos
I suppose it was a novelty bet. After reading the article about Michael Moore, I decided it was worth a small flutter.
Apparantly I'm the only one but thanks for the extra opinions guys