Australian Rules Football - AFL Pre Season Discussion

[Beejayville]

Geelong's Steve Johnson is in some trouble as he has recently been done for Drunk and Disorderly and got arrested, but he managed to keep it from the Footy club.

Apparently the Club has found out and it has not gone down well.

[Beejayville]

What do you guys think of the football TV rights going from Channel 9 to Channel 7?

Good thing or a bad thing?

[Ashtee]

Beejay, I was dissapointed 9 didn't get it because it means we maybe lose the likes of Dermy (someone with insight ) as a commentator and we're still stuck with Robert Walls and Malcolm Blight and 10 doing it on just the two cameras .

With 7 I'll reserve my judgement till I experience it .

Ash.

[Hands Solo]

Originally Posted by Beejayville

What do you guys think of the football TV rights going from Channel 9 to Channel 7?

Good thing or a bad thing?

Less of an AFL perspective and more of a general sports perspective, it's great. With Channel 9 having NRL and AFL rights, there was a real monopoly taking place and a lot of the games were not shown, or at least not shown live, which is/was a great shame. Now with the two sports spread out, there should be more coverage which is fantastic.

[Ashtee]

Originally Posted by Ashtee

... Robert Walls ...

Talking of mental giants, at least I can take solace that John Alexander isn't doing the AO tennis, if I read correctly???.

[Beejayville]

I love Dermie most of the time, but as a commentator he gives me the shits most of the time, too much talking and trying to look young.

Didnt like 9's Sunday coverage when 2 hours of football is cut to 40m of football and 60m of adds, an add every 5 mins and they last for 10 minutes.

Eddie McGuire is the best football commentator for me, pure excitement...brian taylor's crew aint bad either. Steven Silvagni as special comments on 10 was like listening to ABC radio, or make that BBC radio.

Needs a change so TV doesnt become complacent...Channel 7 know how to present AFL football, they were doing it when I was a kid.

Robert Walls is a tosser, but if you listen to him and think of him in a comedic way, then he is really enjoyable to listen too. Malcolm Blight is pure and simple a nutjob, he adds comedy value too.

[ads25]

To be honest im very disapointed about Foxtel losing the football. They covered about 3 games a weekend and while the commentators were boring as bats piss at times, the coverage was excellent. You could watch a full quarter without seeing one commercial break and on Sundays they had Foxtel Digital where you could change camera angels, watch replays and get around the ground scores etc.

Was never a fan of Channel 7's coverage when they had it 6 years ago and aint rreal impressed they have it back. Channel 9 did a fantastic job and turned Friday night football around and made it the main game of the week. Eddie McGuire was brilliant as a commentator and it went downhill a bit after he left the commentary team, but at least Seven have signed up Dennis Cometti

[Beejayville]

Spot on Ads about Fox

24 hour football...Oh yeaaaah (Kramer voice)

White Line Fever and On The Couch were good shows and will be missed...On The Couch will be revamped into Talking Footy on Channel 7.

Surely you must have missed the classic Channel 7 beautys Ads?

Mcavaney is back...Specialllllll...Remember when he was crying, and James Hird was crying, and they all were crying when Hird was injured yet again...Classic tv that, stuff legends are made of...Mcavaney gushing in the presence of Wayne Carey.

Actually I am gonna miss Carro gushing over Terry Wallace on White Line Fever

[ads25]

Originally Posted by Beejayville

Spot on Ads about Fox

24 hour football...Oh yeaaaah (Kramer voice)

White Line Fever and On The Couch were good shows and will be missed...On The Couch will be revamped into Talking Footy on Channel 7.

Surely you must have missed the classic Channel 7 beautys Ads?

Mcavaney is back...Specialllllll...Remember when he was crying, and James Hird was crying, and they all were crying when Hird was injured yet again...Classic tv that, stuff legends are made of...Mcavaney gushing in the presence of Wayne Carey.

Actually I am gonna miss Carro gushing over Terry Wallace on White Line Fever

Hahahaha all good points Beejayville. Now with Carey gone, who will Mcavaney be getting off over now? My guess will be Nick Riewoltd

[Ashtee]

Who else is on 7's team? Anyone heard?

[Hands Solo]

Okay, technically it is post christmas discussion now...or maybe pre 2007 xmas discussion. Anyway, I have a quick question - Am I correct in assuming that Rivalry Round was first introduced in 2005, and that this round occurs twice per season? (that is, two times in the season the fixtures of: Crows v Power, Swans v Lions, Dockers v WCE, Cats v Demons, Crapness v Super Crapness (that is, Pies v Carlton ) are ALL played on the same weekend). Also, any reason for the switch in fixtures? In 2005 St Kilda played the Kangaroos, Richmond played the Doggies and Hawthorn plays the Bombers. Last season though, Richmond played Essendon, the Kangas played the Hawks and the Saints played the Doggies.

I noted in 2004 West Coast played Fremantle during a round where Adelaide did not play Port, so thus assumed that 2005 was the first time it was introduced, although it could be a returning concept rather than new one.

PS - I believe the 2nd round of rivalry games may be renamed Heritage round, at least it was in 2005.

Information Edit - I see that the core make up of the rivalry round is repeated, but some adjustments have been made:

Round 3

Collingwood vs. Richmond	MCG (Night)	7:40pm	7:40pm
Carlton vs. Essendon	MCG (Day)	2:10 pm	2:10 pm
Port Adelaide vs. Adelaide	AAMI Stadium (Day)	3:10 pm	2:40pm
St. Kilda vs. Western Bulldogs	Telstra Dome (Night)	7:10pm	7:10pm
Fremantle vs. West Coast	Subiaco (Night)	7:40pm	5:40pm
Sydney vs. Brisbane Lions	SCG (Sun Early)	1:10 pm	1:10pm
Melbourne vs. Geelong	MCG (Day)	2:10pm	2:10pm
Kangaroos vs. Hawthorn	Telstra Dome (Sun Twilight)	5:10pm	5:10pm

Round 18

Western Bulldogs vs. St. Kilda	Telstra Dome (Night)	7:40pm	7:40pm
Carlton vs. Collingwood	MCG (Day)	2:10pm	2:10pm
Geelong vs. Richmond	Skilled Stadium (Day)	2:10pm	2:10pm
Brisbane Lions vs. Kangaroos	Gabba (Night)	7:10pm	7:10pm
Adelaide vs. Port Adelaide	AAMI Stadium (Night)	7:40pm	7:10pm
Melbourne vs. Sydney	Manuka Oval (Sun Early)	1:10pm	1:10pm
Hawthorn vs. Essendon	MCG (Day)	2:10pm	2:10pm
West Coast vs. Fremantle	Subiaco (Day)	4:40pm	2:40pm

The core Adelaide and Perth derbies remain as does the Saints and Doggies clash, however, the rest is changed from Round 3 to Round 18. As such, I need to know if the following games are rivalries:

+St. Kilda v Wstn Bulldogs - Also if any of these two teams share a more important rivlary with another team
+Hawthorn v Essendon - Also if any of these two teams share a more important rivlary with another team
+Geelong v Richmond - Also if any of these two teams share a more important rivlary with another team
+Kangaroos v Hawthorn - Also if any of these two teams share a more important rivlary with another team
+Melbourne v Geelong - Also if any of these two teams share a more important rivlary with another team
+Carlton v Essendon - Also if any of these two teams share a more important rivlary with another team

If I can get all that info that would be fantastic I've got a system in mind based on things I've noticed from previous results. Backtesting shows a yield of 125%, but the scope of the criteria spans just 4 rounds. Need to verify that the premise behind the success of the system will remain - hopefully it will and we can put the system into action

[Beejayville]

+St. Kilda v Wstn Bulldogs - In my opinion no

+Hawthorn v Essendon - These two teams have a great rivalry that stems back from the Eighties finals, and more recent clashes

+Geelong v Richmond - In my opinon no...Richmond have small rivalry with Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon

+Kangaroos v Hawthorn - Not much, some rivalry in seventies/eighties

+Melbourne v Geelong - None whatsoever

+Carlton v Essendon - Very much so here, dislike each other immensely

Main rivals in my opinion are...

Collingwood V Essendon V Carlton - All 3 love to beat the other
Collingwood v Brisbane - only smallish rivalry but stems from Brisbanes recent domination
Essendon v Brisbane to a small extent
Essendon v Hawthorn
Carlton v Richmond

The main rivalry is around Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon and Richmond.

Geelong is about 30 minutes from Melbourne and their main rival is their supporters.

One thing you should know Crouch, and I am sure everyone in here will agree...Collingwood Football Club is the AFl...They are the most watched, most loved, and most admired football team in the land...They are the Real Madrid, the Man Utd of Australian Football...The only team to ever win the Premiership four years in a row...A feat that has never been equalled.

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Originally Posted by Crouch Potato

+St. Kilda v Wstn Bulldogs - Also if any of these two teams share a more important rivlary with another team
+Hawthorn v Essendon - Also if any of these two teams share a more important rivlary with another team
+Geelong v Richmond - Also if any of these two teams share a more important rivlary with another team
+Kangaroos v Hawthorn - Also if any of these two teams share a more important rivlary with another team
+Melbourne v Geelong - Also if any of these two teams share a more important rivlary with another team
+Carlton v Essendon - Also if any of these two teams share a more important rivlary with another team

Hawthorn-Essendon shared a huge rivalry throughout the 80's meeting in Grand Finals three years in a row between 1983-85 plus many memorable matches between then and now. Id say these two are probably each others biggest rival, or else Essendon and Collingwood would be just as big rivals

Geelong-Richmond, cant see how this is a huge rivalry but i guess these teams did meet a few times in important finals matches in the mid 90's and have played in some pretty close matches over the years. Richmonds biggest rival would be Collingwood or Carlton i imagine after some classic grand finals in the 70's and 80's. Geelongs best rival in recent years would be St Kilda due to each club having emergin young talent.

Kangaroos-Hawthorn, again cant see how this is a huge rivaly but maybe they are just teams left over after the other rivalries fixtures were made. Both these teams had success a few decades back, Kangaroos in the 70's and 90's whilst the Hawks were great througout the 80's and early 90's. Dont forget these two teams played in the very first match to have extra time to decide a match, and to date is the only match to have extra time ever. Back in the first week of the 1994 finals

Melbourne-Geelong are big rivals overall to each other as they are the very first teams created in australian football, enough said.

Carlton-Essendon, these two are massive rivals as they are both the clubs with the most premierships at 16 apiece with collingwood next on that list with 14. Such is the rivalry of these two that this year they played off for the 'Wooden Spoon' back in round 16 and they couldnt even be split there with the match ending in a draw!! But id say Carltons biggest rival would be Collingwood, as would be Essendons

[ads25]

Originally Posted by Beejayville

One thing you should know Crouch, and I am sure everyone in here will agree...Collingwood Football Club is the AFl...They are the most watched, most loved, and most admired football team in the land...They are the Real Madrid, the Man Utd of Australian Football...The only team to ever win the Premiership four years in a row...A feat that has never been equalled.

They are also the only club (perhaps in the world) to lose twice as many premierships than they have actually won. 14 wins from 38 attempts

I think they are more famous for being a team that cant win the big games more so than the 'Great' team they are supposed to be

[Hands Solo]

Thanks for the info. The best thing about Collingwood is that we beat them in the grand final two years in a row Thought they were 16/40 in the Grand Final department though. I'm sure we would have equalled their record if not for Akermanis' stupid free kick reversal. 12 point turnaround that was

Anyway, on to the basis behind my essay like question you guys have kindly answered. Below are the results from the 2005 and 2006 rivalry rounds - for clarity it is a rivalry round when both Adelaide and Perth teams play:

2006
Melb 13.9.87 df. Geel 11.15.81
StK 14.8.92 df. WB 12.6.78 Telstra Dome 4:10pm
Frem 12.16.88 df. WCE 12.11.83 Subiaco Oval 7:10pm
Rich 13.19.97 df. Ess 13.17.95 Melbourne Cricket Ground 7:40pm
Adel 15.13.103 df. Port 8.5.53 AAMI Stadium Sunday May 7 1:10pm
Syd 15.12.102 df. BL 10.10.70 The Gabba 2:10pm
Coll 21.12.138 df. Carl 9.12.66 Melbourne Cricket Ground 2:10pm
Kang 15.12.102 df. Haw 11.14.80 Telstra Dome


7:40pm StK 22.10.142 df. WB 13.14.92
Geel 14.10.94 dw. Melb 14.10.94
Haw 7.16.58 df. Kang 4.12.36
Rich 20.9.129 df. Ess 16.17.113
Syd 14.13.97 df. BL 6.4.40
Port 14.11.95 df. Adel 11.15.81
Coll 24.12.156 df. Carl 17.10.112
Frem 18.10.118 df. WCE 8.13.61 Subiaco Oval

2005
West Coast19.14.128 Fremantle12. 8.80 Subiaco Oval (N)
Geelong15. 9.99 Melbourne14.16.100 Skilled Stadium
Kangaroos13. 7.85 St Kilda16.12.108 Telstra Dome
Collingwood14.10.94 Carlton19.15.129 MCG (N)
Port Adelaide12. 9.81 Adelaide13.10.88 AAMI Stadium
Sydney19.10.124 Brisbane Lions6. 4.40 Telstra Stadium
Hawthorn17.15.117 Essendon16. 8.104
MCG Richmond16.11.107 Western Bulldogs18.11.119 Telstra Dome

Melbourne18. 6.114 Geelong8.18.66 MCG (N)
Carlton16.12.108 Collingwood20. 8.128 MCG
St Kilda14. 9.93 Kangaroos15.10.100 Telstra Dome
Brisbane Lions11.15.81 Sydney13. 9.87 Gabba Ground (N)
Fremantle12. 8.80 West Coast12.16.88 Subiaco Oval (N)
Adelaide18.16.124 Port Adelaide8. 8.56 AAMI Stadium
Essendon10.17.77 Hawthorn11. 9.75 MCG
Western Bulldogs11.18.84 Richmond12.16.88 Telstra Dome

Highlighted in bold are games where the final margin has been under 15.5 points, which is generally the highest paying of the the TAB Tri Bet options (Home over 15.5, either team under 15.5, away over 15.5). In the 4 rivalry rounds, the tri bet option of under 15.5 has won on 4, 4, 5 and 2 occassions. There has also been 1 full-time draw, but a hell of a lot of other games have come close. In particular I recall Essendon almost drawing with Richmond. Level stakes would show a profit but I've got a fancier but I think more effective staking plan in mind.

The premise behind the idea of the U15.5 bet is that the rivalry between the teams throws the form out the window enough so that I can blanket bet on each game ending with a 15.5- margin. The main question I need to answer to myself is whether or not this is a credible framework for a system, or whether the past results are just 'flash in the pan' kind of stuff.

[Ashtee]

Hawthorn - Kangaroos (Nth Melbourne) was a massive rivalry from the mid to late 70's. They were the two dominant teams, playing off in the 75, 76 & 78 Grand Finals. 75 was particuarly famous, being North's first flag, then in 77 Hawthorn looked set for the honour of beating Collingwoodn't in another Grand Final only to have the considered outclassed Kangaroos blow them away in the prelim. Then, to this day the greatest sporting event I've witnessed, Kangaroos coming from 27pts down at 3/4 time to tie the Grand Final - isn't nature wonderful. Even besides the Grand Finals they always seemed to meet in Night Grand Finals even into the '80's I think. I certainly recall them playng of in one about 1990 (cost me a massive parking fine that night).

[TazaD]

Originally Posted by Beejayville

1) I love Dermie most of the time, but as a commentator he gives me the shits most of the time, too much talking and trying to look young.

2) Didnt like 9's Sunday coverage when 2 hours of football is cut to 40m of football and 60m of adds, an add every 5 mins and they last for 10 minutes.

3) Eddie McGuire is the best football commentator for me, pure excitement...


4) Robert Walls is a tosser, but if you listen to him and think of him in a comedic way, then he is really enjoyable to listen too.

1) Not sure trying to look young affects his in-game comments all that much! ...Nothing too offensive in the breaks either..better than seeing McGuires fat chops (but more on that later!)

2) You don't think 7 and 10 are going to show as many ad's?! They just paid a rediculously exorbitant price for the rights...they will be doing their very best to make it worth while!...
...besides, that was the replay game...tough to show 3 games on at the same time on 2 channels (Fox and 9)...oh look, now 7 and 10 are going to try!
...Will make it even worse for regional viewers who don't have access to 7 and 10, having Southern Cross instead.

3) Pure excitement if it happens to be anything at all positive to do with Collingwood...****ING TERRIBLE to the rest of us!!
The only amusing part of his calls were when Collingwood were getting beat and he'd either a) Complain about mystery free-kicks....b) get about as "excited" as reading a shopping list...or c) Simply get the sooks and not speak at all for most of the last quarter.
Absolute giant knob, who thankfully will never broadcast a game again...

4) Absolute giant knob, who should never do a game again. Just, just...just NO!! Amusing??!!...ENJOYABLE!!!!!!! If you think a "special comment" is a very poor effort of simply decribing the last minute of play...then maybe...I guess? Or coming up with a wonderful insight that either one of the commentators has already said, or it's so blantently obvious that they didn't feel the need to!
Zero sence of humour....made up for well enough by his sence of self importance I guess.

Oh well, he's amusing you...I can only assume he's amusing himself...I guess the rest of us are just happy there's radio coverage of the games aswell.

[Chairman of ROGA]

Originally Posted by Ashtee

Who else is on 7's team? Anyone heard?

Ive heard some rumors surrounding David Schwartz moving to 7.

[Beejayville]

Originally Posted by Ashtee

Hawthorn - Kangaroos (Nth Melbourne) was a massive rivalry from the mid to late 70's. They were the two dominant teams, playing off in the 75, 76 & 78 Grand Finals. 75 was particuarly famous, being North's first flag, then in 77 Hawthorn looked set for the honour of beating Collingwoodn't in another Grand Final only to have the considered outclassed Kangaroos blow them away in the prelim. Then, to this day the greatest sporting event I've witnessed, Kangaroos coming from 27pts down at 3/4 time to tie the Grand Final - isn't nature wonderful. Even besides the Grand Finals they always seemed to meet in Night Grand Finals even into the '80's I think. I certainly recall them playng of in one about 1990 (cost me a massive parking fine that night).

Not if you are a Collingwood supporter

[Beejayville]

Originally Posted by ads25

They are also the only club (perhaps in the world) to lose twice as many premierships than they have actually won. 14 wins from 38 attempts

I think they are more famous for being a team that cant win the big games more so than the 'Great' team they are supposed to be

Ads25 you sound like a very jealous, bitter Carlton supporter!

Are you?