Irish In-Running Tactics

[billy the punter]

Keving Manning on New Approach in the Derby.
Keving Manning on Finsceal Beo at Ascot.
Johnny Murtagh not riding to his draw in the Kings Stand
The farce of the Irish Derby - very tough sell to say it was accidental.

And this is just in the past few weeks, there are endless other instances of rule breaking.

If the authorities do not get tough then you are giving them a licence to cheat in all the big races.

Is that what we want?

[Gingertipster]

Think the Irish Derby (Alesandro Volta) was accidental.

Trouble is we do not know if it was or not.

The horse wandered around in the Lingfield Derby Trial, so is known to do so. So what is to stop a "team" getting him on the rail and then hitting him with the whip, knowing he'd wander and interfere with others? Particularly when the owner has others in the field.

Murtagh should have known this was probably going to happen when going for the whip.

As I say I do not believe it was deliberate, but what is to stop these things happening for real if they do not come down hard on it now.

Ginge

[jtw1]

I take the opinion that the interference was accidental but it could easily have been avoided imo
With the rail on one side, and as Ginge states the horse has been known to wander, why did Murtagh change his whip hand to left from right when the obvious chance of the horse veering away from the rail was going to be a fairly high reaction.
More a lack of common-sense by the Jockey than a deliberate measure but after the instances highlighted by Billy you can see where the doubts about the yard's integrity are coming from .

Maybe it's time for the authorities to have words with connections of those horses entered from the same yard running in the same race that any act [ not obviously accidental ]that gives an advantage to a stable-mate will result in disqualification of ALL the yards runners in that race and that special attention will be made of these runners.
These decisions could be made by a panel of ex-pros and trainers with no connection to those involved ,with no appeal available .
However for betting purposes the original result should stand as these bigger yards [ where most multiple entries come from] are interested in getting the 'black type' for breeding purpose's and not so much involvement in the betting side , also punters should not have to wait for the result of these investigations to occur.

[billy the punter]

Can someone tell me why A.Volta was placed 4th and not last?

He didn't only affect Tartan Bearer, he slaughtered Curtain Call too. Shouldn't he have been placed last?

Sorry, I'm being stupid, I forget he is trained by O'Brien.

WHAT A DISGRACE - AGAIN.

[billy the punter]

And just realised no ban for Murtagh.

Taking us for a bunch of @*&#s aren't they?

[RussP]

Same old, same old.....fcuking O'Brien....really cannot stick the guy
Bigger than the sport in Ireland?

[Trotter]

Haven't seen a replay of todays race so just going off initial impressions........and the race result 'comments in running'

If the 'swerve' on A Volta was premeditated then the conclusion would be that they were setting the race up for Bashkirov - he was the only one of the O'Brien runners coming up the inside of AV.........but that's stretching credulity beyond limit. He was already a beaten horse as were two other O'Brien runners at the back of the field.

It can't have been deliberately done to help Frozen Fire because he himself was coming wide and if the interfered with horses had gone further wide, he'd have been interfrerd with as well. As it was the comments in running say 'slightly hampered'.......

In any case A Volta might have won himself if he'd run a straight line..........

I just can't see that it was deliberate.

[billy the punter]

Originally Posted by Trotter

Haven't seen a replay of todays race so just going off initial impressions........and the race result 'comments in running'

If the 'swerve' on A Volta was premeditated then the conclusion would be that they were setting the race up for Bashkirov - he was the only one of the O'Brien runners coming up the inside of AV.........but that's stretching credulity beyond limit. He was already a beaten horse as were two other O'Brien runners at the back of the field.

It can't have been deliberately done to help Frozen Fire because he himself was coming wide and if the interfered with horses had gone further wide, he'd have been interfrerd with as well. As it was the comments in running say 'slightly hampered'.......

In any case A Volta might have won himself if he'd run a straight line..........

I just can't see that it was deliberate.

You're looking a little too deep.

By allowing your horse to stop two rival horses (the fav and 4th fav I may add) you give the rest of your team an advantage - lets be far, take out Curtain Call and Tartan Bearer, and bear in mind Casual Conquest drifted like a barge, who else but an Aiden O'Brien horse can win????

Try and catch it on replay or on youtube, and let me know what you think - and try and forget you backed the winner .

I backed Bashkirov at huge odds so the trouble suited me, but it doesn't mean I agree with the actions.

[billy the punter]

Oh and there is no way on God's green Earth that A.Volta would've beaten Tartan Bearer if they both kept straight.

[WoodyTHFC]

Originally Posted by billy the punter

Can someone tell me why A.Volta was placed 4th and not last?

He didn't only affect Tartan Bearer, he slaughtered Curtain Call too. Shouldn't he have been placed last?

Sorry, I'm being stupid, I forget he is trained by O'Brien.

WHAT A DISGRACE - AGAIN.

I must admit Im very surprised that A.Volta wasnt placed behind Curtain Call as well as Tartan Bearer as he severely interefered with both of them at the key moment and not just Tartan Bearer.

As for 'tactics' well I cant say clearly that they were evident here. Dont get me wrong, I dont like the fact that O'Brien seems to run such an unnecessary number of horses in these races but in this case I just think it was the case of a really wayward horse who had shown of such previously. It was most unfortunate that his wayward actions effectively carried out the fav. who I backed and also interfered with Cumani's horse at the key time. I cant say at all that in any way were the actions of Johnny Murtagh deliberate. To say something is deliberate that means that it is cast iron and quite simply no one can say that. What I would say is that I think he could have done a bit more to stop riding after his horse had started to hang left rather than just change his hands, Im surprised he hasnt got at least a little ban for careless riding.

The great shame about it is that we will never know categorically who was the best horse on the day. I thought the winner went away quite well in the end and remember he had form with the fav before hand although the jockey bookings since that seemed to suggest he hadnt gone forward from what essentially was a modest O'Brien bunch. However the fact was that his main rivals on the day couldnt get the chance to show that they could go away at the key moment means we just dont know who was the best horse on the day. What I would say is that the presence of the very modest Bashkirov (only 90 rated) and the fact that they did finish in a bit of a bunch (despite A.Volta's actions) does make me personally look at the form a bit sceptically.

[BillyHills]

I'm pretty sure it was accidental on this occasion but have wondered about other races in the past.

The main point I think is, is it good for racing that one stable has so many runners all the time in 'the' big races and obviously some not ridden on their merits. I dont mind if they are ridden to reach their best possible placing but sometimes its rediculous how fast they go off only to cause trouble when weakening on the rails with 2f to go which makes the route that much more difficult for the better horses.

At the end of the day we want the best horse to win the race, its good for racing all round and sometimes i'm not sure that happens because of pacemakers and the like.
I reckon todays race was pretty moderate anyway, even allowing for the interferance a lot of horses finished fairly close up and they all cant be superstars can they?